EKVG – Vágar Airport Runway Overlap

edyn121 · December 4, 2020, 8:15pm

Hi there.

For those who use the EKVG airport scenery (downloaded from here) and Navigraph Navdata, there are two overlapping, though slightly misaligned, runways. I am using version 1.5 of the scenery, the latest to date. The issue was present in Cycle 12, possibly also 11, although I am not entirely sure, and is still present in Cycle 13. The issue is not present when using the default MSFS navdata.

Default MSFS Navdata:

Navigraph Cycle 13 (Beta) Navdata:

The author of the scenery claimed in a comment in October I have read that Navigraph will solve this problem in their next release. Other users have reported the same problem with other airports too. There’s nothing I can do unfortunately. For the moment I guess you will need to turn off Navgraph to use this airport.

I am unaware of this happening at other airports.
I am also unsure if this is an issue with the EKVG scenery itself or with the Navigraph data, but hopefully, this can be investigated.

NAVData · December 4, 2020, 8:48pm

Hi,
yes, we had set our package in the scenery-file high enough to overwrite the default data and low enough, that the scenery-designer overwrite our data (ie. runways). But the addon-scenery must support this (ie. delete the runways on an airport). There are so many addons where this works correctly but I don´t know anything about this scenery.

I´m not a scenery designer, so I have no knowledge about this, only what I have learned from the SDK and ASOBO. Further, we are currently NOT in contact with this addon developer, which is normally a good way to solve such issues, but there are so many addon developer - normally the developer contact us, if something is unclear or wrong.

One point:
EKVG doesn´t exists in the stock data in MSFS. Therefore it´s clear, that there is no underlying runway. We add all airports which are not existing, including the runways - therefore you see our runways underlying … so there must be any solution that the addon-scenery “overwrite” our runways, but here ends my knowledge sorry. I have only read somewhere, that the developer must set the delete-runways flag and that renaming files can help which will be loaded first and after but again, I´m not a designer …

Sorry, that I can´t help more in this case.
Cheers,
Richard

NAVData · December 5, 2020, 7:15pm

Hi again,
I have tried to looked deeper into it … it´s not the order in the content.xml file because since the current client beta 16 set our package to the lowest priority, that all addon-sceneries below our package will be overwrite our package.

So, the question is:
Use the addon developer the correct flags, like the “deleteAllRunways” and/or “DeleteRunway” in their sceneries? Here are the tags for both from the current SDK:

<xs:complexType name="ctDeleteAirport">
    <xs:sequence>
        <xs:group ref="grpDeleteAirportChildren" minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" />
    </xs:sequence>
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllApproaches" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllApronLights" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllAprons" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllFrequencies" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllHelipads" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllRunways" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllStarts" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllTaxiways" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllBlastFences" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllBoundaryFences" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllControlTowers" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
    <xs:attribute name="deleteAllJetways" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllDepartures" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllArrivals" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllPaintedElements" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllLightSupports" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllTaxiwaySigns" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllILSs" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllTerminalWaypoints" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
	<xs:attribute name="deleteAllTerminalNDBs" form="unqualified" type="stBool" />
</xs:complexType>

<xs:complexType name="ctDeleteRunway">
    <xs:attribute name="surface" form="unqualified" type="stSurface" use="required" />
    <xs:attribute name="number" form="unqualified" type="stRunwayNumber" use="required" />
    <xs:attribute name="designator" form="unqualified" type="stDesignator" />
</xs:complexType>

Cheers,
Richard

edyn121 · December 5, 2020, 7:35pm

Hi,
I think I know what you mean, but I’m not sure.
So, technically, I should use the addon developer (the SDK?) to remove the runway manually? Because that might work, but then the whole airport would need to be moved a little bit more to the North-East to align it with the Navigraph runway, right?
Or should I just tell the developer to do that as an update?

Thanks!

NAVData · December 5, 2020, 7:48pm

No, this should be done by the developer … the developer should know what all these lines above mean. The important thing is, that they “removed” all underlying elements in their scenery. The customer outside should do nothing.

The strange thing is, all these “double runway” issues are only on airports which are NOT existing in the default, where we and also the addon developer add runways. All airports, which are existing in the sim in the stock data haven´t this issue. So it could also be possible, that this is a bug in the sim, that when you have two customer-sceneries (and our data are also a kind of “scenery”) for an equal airport that the sim can´t handle it. It´s an assumption but it looks so …

I have an idea now - will try to call a few contacts on my side … will come back with an update
Cheers,
Richard

edyn121 · December 5, 2020, 8:03pm

Thank you so much!
You guys are going above and beyond to provide solutions to these issues! This is why I will happily continue using Navigraph next year and hopefully for many years to come!

NAVData · December 10, 2020, 8:49am

Hi again,
I want to give you a follow up to this issue. We are now in contact with the developer and indeed, he don´t use the “DeleteRunway” attribute in his scenery files, therefore the “double-runway”-effect. He will now build a test-version, which we get for testing and then we will see what happens. According the developer, this change could be have other side-effects on his side but step by step, we will see.

More, when we have tested his updated version … but we are working on it.
Cheers,
Richard

Sileo35 · December 11, 2020, 9:34am

Hello,
I have try to make an airport scenery for MSFS 2020 and I have use the Airport options :

<DeleteAirport deleteAllApproaches="FALSE" deleteAllApronLights="TRUE" deleteAllAprons="TRUE" deleteAllFrequencies="TRUE" deleteAllHelipads="TRUE" deleteAllRunways="TRUE" deleteAllStarts="TRUE" deleteAllTaxiways="TRUE" deleteAllBlastFences="TRUE" deleteAllBoundaryFences="TRUE" deleteAllJetways="TRUE" deleteAllControlTowers="TRUE" deleteAllDepartures="FALSE" deleteAllArrivals="FALSE" deleteAllPaintedElements="TRUE" deleteAllLightSupports="TRUE" deleteAllTaxiwaySigns="TRUE" deleteAllILSs="FALSE" deleteAllTerminalWaypoints="FALSE" deleteAllTerminalNDBs="FALSE"/>

I only let FALSE approaches, departures and arrivals.
Then the problem steel here and sometimes, maybe 1 game loading on 4, I have only 1 runway …

I hope it can help you to inverstigate the problem
Cheers,
Léo

Sileo35 · December 11, 2020, 10:47am

Apparently, I have remove my Content.xml and then the problem seems to be fixed. Probably, cause I have install Navigraph after my scenery exist. Maybe, an issue link to the order of loading ?

NAVData · December 11, 2020, 10:48am

Hi Leo,
correct, that´s exactly the correct way and what we told the scenery designer … The issue exists normally only on the airports which are not existing in the default data. - therefore, when you don´t use us, the scenery looks good, because there is no underlying runways.

But as far as you use our dataset, we “create” the missing airports in a very limited design (only the runway, lights, painting and navigation elements). Now the scenery designer expect no underlying data, therefore they don´t add the “DeleteAirport” tag with the different attributes and therefore you see the double runways. Our´s and the runways from the addon-scenery.

So, I´m currently in contact with several addon-designer (free- and payware) to inform the devs there, that they should include these “DeleteAirport” tag at least, with following attributes:

deleteAllApproaches = FALSE
deleteAllFrequencies = FALSE
deleteAllHelipads = TRUE
deleteAllRunways = TRUE
deleteAllStarts = TRUE
deleteAllDepartures = FALSE
deleteAllArrivals = FALSE
deleteAllPaintedElements = TRUE
deleteAllLightSupports = TRUE

These settings override our settings but not the terminal procedures which will be updated monthly. So the user can expect a clean and good scenery with monthly updated terminal procedures.

Cheers,
Richard

NAVData · December 11, 2020, 10:52am

Hi again Leo,
with Navigraph Navdata client beta 16 (onwards) we place our package high enough to “overwrite” the default data but low enough NOT to overwrite customer addon sceneries. Also, our client removes the entries in the content.xml files also, when you remove the dataset. Therefore it´s very, very important, that:

you have installed the latest Navigraph Navdata client (at least beta 16)
you remove the dataset and re-install it

With this way, you can be sure, that the order in the content.xml file is alsways correct. Ok to delete the content.xml is also valid

Cheers,
Richard

Stovie319 · December 24, 2020, 1:47pm

Hi again Richard.

I’ve got the latest scenery update and still getting a double runway.

Any ideas? I’ll post it on the scenery developers site as well and see if they’ve found a fix

Thanks

NAVData · December 24, 2020, 2:34pm

Hi,
and you have done point 2 from the FAQ

Cheers,
Richard

NAVData · December 25, 2020, 8:25am

Hi again,
I´m in contact with the developer now - I know now, that these “DeleteAirport”-element is currently NOT set therefore the double scenery view. He will add it, we will test it and I guess after that, all is working as expected. We have made a successful first test with his FHSH scenery.

Here from the SDK developer mode - you see, we have the “DeleteAirport” element included, but in the addon scenery it´s missing and therefore the bad result:

Cheers,
Richard

NAVData · December 26, 2020, 10:36am

Hi,
the developer has added the changes and forward me the fixed scenery. Now it looks perfect - all double scenery elements are gone. So, I have recommended him, to add these to all his sceneries - also this is the recommendation for all addon-scenery

Cheers,
Richard

PS: I guess he will release an update for his sceneries as soon as possible

Stovie319 · December 26, 2020, 4:57pm

I think the poor guy is pulling his hair out. He did a ‘fix’ which I download into my Community folder and then fired up FS and it was perfect. I then did a couple of flights (restarting the Sim due to the weather bug that reverts to CAVOK) and did a flight from Orkney to Faroe and when I emerged at minimums b*gger me there was 2x runways again. I didn’t touch anything to do with the Navigraph database in between. Something very odd going on.

I cleared my cache, switched off the Sim, deleted and re-installed his fix and then restarted the sim to continue to Iceland. 2 runways again

I though I was going mad but after his initial fix earlier I took a screenshot on the PC and there is 100% only one runway.

NAVData · December 26, 2020, 6:11pm

I have one additional tip, but …

Two questions:

Do you have installed the Aerosoft Paderborn scenery?
Can you upload your current content.xml file please?

I also had what you described … so both questions are important to know

Thank you
Richard

Stovie319 · December 26, 2020, 7:10pm

I’m searching for EDLP in my folders. How do I find my content.xml file (sorry for being simple )

Stovie319 · December 26, 2020, 7:11pm

According to Marketplace I have the free Paderborn add-on installed

Stovie319 · December 26, 2020, 7:14pm

Just checked Content Manager and there’s an update available for EDLP I haven’t installed. It sounds like you have a plan so won’t do anything yet

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EKVG – Vágar Airport Runway Overlap

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