When I’m entering my flight plan on the FMC of any of the aircraft in MSFS (e.g., the 747), I very frequently encounter the message NOT IN DATABASE when entering waypoints.
An example of many is VIPOR, which is a waypoint just to the west of the Michigan thumb. But the errors occur on waypoints all across North America.
After much debugging, I’ve confirmed the following:
If I uninstall all the Navigraph products on my computer, and use only the database within MSFS, everything works fine. All waypoints are present and usable.
If I install the Navihraph products, including the latest AIRAC, I get the error message NOT IN DATABASE for a large number of waypoints.
If I again uninstall the Navigraph products, everything works fine again.
I’m using the latest version of MSFS (but not the beta), all the latest Navigraph apps and AIRAC as of this morning. I have no external add-on aircraft, but a few purchased through the Marketplace.
Hi,
I have checked your example waypoint VIPOR, and this waypoint is not be used in any civil procedures, nor on civil airways.
According the FAA, VIPOR is a military reporting point and we don’t offer any military data, which will not be used from civil aviation also, in our source. Possible thats also the case for the others.
The question for me is, why do you need ie. this fix VIPOR or better from where do you have a flightplan with this waypoint?
These waypoints are supported in the Navigraph products released for P3D and LittleNav Map (all the latest versions). I fly both airliners and military aircraft in P3D, and this has never been an issue there. Even today they are supported.
I often port flight plans prepared for P3D into MSFS. The problem occurs in MSFS when one of the waypoints in the Navigraph AIRAC for P3D is not supported in MSFS.
I use military aircraft in MSFS in addition to the airliners. Lack of support for these waypoints in MSFS (which are present in P3D) means that many of the military training routes possible in P3D (for example) are not possible in MSFS.
Bottom line is that the content of the AIRACs for MSFS are not the same as the AIRACs for P3D. As best I can determine, the default MSFS AIRACs (not the NAVIGRAPH ones) contain the same content as the Navigraph AIRACs for P3D.
Hope this helps calirify the problem, thanks for the quick response.
Hi again,
we don´t offer any update for P3D, so the P3D will not be updated (at least by us). Therefore it is not recommended to use a P3D generated flightplan in MSFS because the MSFS data are up to date, the P3D not and years old. So it is very likely that the “missing” waypoints are because use plan a flight with old data and want to use this flight in a newer data system. That can´t be really work …
When you use the LNM with our data you will also not find this (VIPOR) waypoint, but you will possible find it, when you use the MSFS/P3D data.
As I have written before, we only offer civil waypoints (and military, when it´s also been used for civil procedures). We don´t support any Military AIP and therefore such waypoints are missing.
Also, it´s highly recommended to plan flightplans with the same AIRAC cycle and not with different to avoid outdated navaids, outdated/not existing waypoints and/or airways, renamed/removed terminal procedures, … as in this case when you port flight plans from P3D to MSFS.
Hope that helps and make some things clearer.
Cheers,
Richard
PS: military waypoints are only included in the MSFS for the US area, nowhere else (so thats not a worldwide coverage) - and the reason is because ASOBO mix the sources (NavBlue and FAA). NavBlue doesn´t also have this VIPOR waypoint in his data, but this waypoint exists in the FAA data.
You have marked this solved but I’m having the same issue. Tonight, after I updated to the new AIRAC, several waypoints/fixes are gone. These have nothing to do with military airports in the US and I know for a fact they are used for civil aviation. Several of the waypoints I’m looking for are part of a special procedure used by the airlines and high performance GA operators at the airport. I was trying to simulate the procedure tonight.
ALOT of civil waypoints are now missing around this airport.
If I uninstall your database they are back in world map. I am certain they were there when I first subscribed to your service a few weeks ago.
Are you saying these waypoints//fixes are no longer in your database? Thanks.
First, thanks for your prompt attention to this, and your quick responses.
This is not solved, please do not mark it as such. Here is more info.
Pomcn is correct. Many civil waypoints are missing. Here are two more: WEZUL and INIRY. I don’t think these are military, but I have no way to determine that. I can provide more examples if that is helpful.
In my previous postings, I was not clear about the P3D AIRACS that support these (and other) waypoints. They are the current AIRAC cycles for the PMDG, QualityWings, and Captain Sim aircraft.
When I said that I was transferring flight plans from LittleNav Map to MSFS, I meant to say that I do that manually using a hand-written list of airports, SIDs, STARs, and waypoints.
The problem is that the AIRACs for the P3D aircraft, and LittleNav Map, contain a large number of civil waypoints that are usable by the aircraft FMCs, and which are not in the MSFS AIRACS. A specific example is that the AIRAC for the PMDG aircraft in P3D has different content than the PMDG aircraft in MSFS. And this is with respect to civil waypoints, not military (VIPOR was a bad example).
Hi again,
WEZUL and INIRY are both for special IAPs and special DEPs. The question is for what IAP and for what DEP. When these waypoints are for KOXI than I don´t find these special procedures for these waypoints, not in our database, nor in the FAA database - there is only one RNAV(GPS) approach for 18 and this approach haven´t any of these waypoints included.
So, please let me know, where this waypoints are missing - on which airway, on which terminal procedure, on which airport, … that I can look deeper into it - or post a chart where these waypoints are included.
Sorry, but I can´t really read cristal ball´s … please guys, be so kind and let us know, on which airport, which procedure you mean? Not all are US and are familiar with your area and its impossible only with such global positings to help you.
Question:
Are the “special procedures” are published via the FAA? In other words, do you find these procedures on ie. Airnav? When not, then these procedures are not included because we use standard data and not any special airline data.
So, when such waypoints are designed with the “published criteria” flag as “special IAP, DEP, ARR” such procedures are only available for special airliners and not for the public, therefore such procedures are also missing in the FAA database (reference AirNav.com)
The waypoints in question are considered “public information” as they reviewed and approved by the FAA for inclusion into the National Airspace System. Thus the reason I would guess they show up in the stock sim World Map.
As mentioned, I am focused on a certain set of waypoints, but several other “public” waypoints that are tied to older public approaches are also missing.
I’d rather not give the specific airport here but will direct message you with the waypoints.
Why? What is so secret on it? Please post an airport example what you can post … this is not a 1:1 support forum and I guess all should have the chance to find the answer, if there is an answer.
The fundamental issue is that many waypoints that are available (for example) in the PMDG 737 AIRAC for P3D are not present in the AIRAC for the PMDG 737 in MSFS. The same is true for other aircraft supported by both simulators.
The nature of those waypoints (e.g., military, or for special IAPs, etc.), and their use, is a separate issue.
The waypoints should be in the AIRACS at the outset. How does Navigraph know a priori that they’ll be used inappropriately?
I suspect the problem is a bug in the Navigraph databases for MSFS (though I’m not asking for any fixes).
If Navigraph has decided to no longer support certain classes of waypoints in MSFS that are still supported in P3D, that would be good to know that.
Again, thanks for your attention and patience on this.
Suggestion: run a comparison of the contents of the Navigraph AIRAC for the PMDG 737, and compare it against the contents of the Navigraph AIRAC for the PMDG 737 in P3D.
No, and exaxtly this is wrong. As I have explained it and to trying find out:
Are these procedures in the official FAA public database or not (no published criteria):
When yes, we must look deeper, when not such waypoints are not included.
I can’t confirm, nor I can’t check it because all what I get from you are waypoints, one was a military one (which we don’t support it, and the rest waypoints for special procedures which are designed and offered only for airlines. As I have written, we are using the standard dataset since 20 years now and no tailored airline records.
So I will try it again:
Please give me an exact example on which airport, which procedure do you miss which waypoint. Show me the FAA chart from ie. airnav.com please …
I"m not sure what you want and why this is so hard to offer such basic requirements. Without it, we can’t help you, sorry because we can’t also report it to Jeppesen in this way as you report it here.
100% identically … the reason? The files will be created once and this dataset will be used for the MSFS PMDG, for the P3D PMDG and for the FSX PMDG. There is no difference …
Suggestion from my side:
Which PMDG file is different (and where) between MSFS and P3D?
First of all, while you may be trying to be helpful, you are certainly coming across snarky and defensive. Second of all, I do not owe you an explanation as to why I don’t what to disclose the airport. Third, you can disregard my inquiry because, at the end of the day, this issue is a non-issue to me in the grand scheme of things - it is simply a form of entertainment via a video game.
That said, I am not sure what you don’t understand about the question(s) we are asking. In the United States, when the FAA approves a fix/waypoint in the National Airspace System, whether tied to a private procedure or not, it becomes public information. The specific waypoints I was asking about are missing in YOUR database but ARE included in the FAA’s Fixes/Waypoints database AND the stock MSFS World Map database. They may not be used in a public procedure but it is publicly published data in the US NAS.
So trying to interpret all this, at least in the US, your Navigraph database includes fixes and waypoints associated with public procedures ONLY, correct? It appears this is the case, so simply make that more clear in your data disclaimer. In essences you are not really using all “standard data” available when it comes to US. The FAA’s database for fixes and waypoints would be the “standard data” regardless what type of procedure it is tied to in the US NAS.
I am only a few weeks into being a subscriber to your service and learning the in’s and out’s. But, in all actuality, the stock MSFS World Map is much more comprehensive as it relates to ALL fixes and waypoints in the US NAS consistent with the FAA’s database. So, I will uninstall your AIRAC service and carry on. There are still other attributes of your service that are helpful. Pretty simple solution for me.
Sorry to inconvenience you with the inquiry. And, of course, your house, your rules.
When you read my posting, I have also confirmed that ie, the WEZUL fix is published and also in the FAA database but as I have also written this fix will only be used for special procedures (departures, approaches).
Directly from the FAA database, WEZUL exists yes but is flagged as “published criteria” and these criteria are the special procedures:
As I have also written - we use the standard ARINC424 database which contains only standard records but no tailored records for airlines or special procedures. Therefore this fix is not available in our dataset.
These special procedures are NOT public and when, please give me a link to this public procedure. I have mentioned airnav.com, which contains (at least what I know) all public FAA procedures. I have asked this now several times but I don´t get any information from you …
Give me the airport, the procedure and show me the missing waypoint(s) … Again, we can´t report a missing fix, when we have only a monologue of text. We need references to the AIPs and/or the the FAA. I don´t say, that these fixes are not existing but what I say is, that these fixes will not be used in a public standard procedures … only in special procedures and these procedures are NOT available for public …
And last, when you look into the FAA CIFP file you will find the WEZUL as enroute waypoint but you will not find ANY!! procedure with this waypoint - reason? As the FAA database says: special DP, and special IAP which are not published for public.
Richard, it is clear that you do not understand the Navigraph products, the FAA database, how your customers use your products, or IFR flying in general. I give up.
