Shortening of old SIDs at EDDB leads to invalid starting points of the route (SID-Points)

SimBrief Dispatch
, ,
1

Hello,
I saw that a similar problem already has been reported in another topic but without proper solution (the post marked as “solution” doesn’t reflect an answer to the actual problem in any way) and since it has been locked for further answers, I want to try to clarify the whole thing a bit in this topic.

As previously mentioned by the other author, all westbound SIDs in Berlin have been shortened down to the waypoints LOGDO and SUKIP.

To give you the simplest and shortest route from Berlin as an example, it leads to Hamburg:
The old route could have been: SOGMA M748 RARUP RARU1P. In fact, it is (and was) the second suggested route by SimBrief and also irl-filed routing till AIRAC 2203 came out.
So far so good. But validating it through Eurocontrol leads to the error “ROUTE135: THE SID LIMIT IS EXCEEDED FOR AERODROME EDDB [EDDB5D] CONNECTING TO SOGMA.”
That makes sense, because SOGMA SIDs have been replaced by the routing SUKIP M748 SOGMA.

Therefore SimBrief can’t find any valid SID for SOGMA anymore, because there simply isn’t and that is why it suggests a direct SOGMA after departure.
The main problem is not, like suggested by a moderator in the similar opened topic, that direct routings are not allowed in Berlin (it is common thing to file no SID IRL, but the starting waypoint (first route waypoint) it has to be an actual SID point and not an outdated SID Point like SOGMA). The main problem is that outdated routes are filed daily. And it would mean the world to us if you could take out the invalid routes and finally not mark routes as “valid for AIRAC 2203” anymore if they really, really, aren’t.

Best regards

1 Like
2

Hi,
to be understood you correctly, a “DCT to” is allowed at EDDB but only to the “starting/first fix of an existing SID”? Is this the correct conclusion of your question?

I have never seen/heard some restrictions elsewhere because such waypoints are in most cases not on any airway so, that means a DCT/VECTOR must be follow to somewhere … I would understand the last waypoint of an SID (because this waypoints are in most cases on an airway) but the first one looks strange …

Runway 25L @EDDB , you get a DCT to LULUL ok (it´s the first waypoint of the SUKIP1N) … and after that? ESIKA or DCT SUKIP or ???

It looks very specific for Berlin … from where should the Pilots known this (or a flightplanning tool)? Is there any reference in the AIP Germany to this?

By the way, I have tried a flightplan with the current cycle AIRAC 2203, from EDDB to EDDH (Dep 25L / Arr 05) and get this route:
GERG1N GERGA M725 RENKI L619 BUMIL M748 RARUP RARU4A

Cheers,
Richard

1 Like
3

Hello,

to be understood you correctly, a “DCT to” is allowed at EDDB but only to the “starting/first fix of an existing SID”? Is this the correct conclusion of your question?

Yes, because the air traffic controller is in responsibility to assign the SID. But that is not my main point, since i don’t have a problem with SimBrief suggesting an SID.

I have never seen/heard some restrictions elsewhere because such waypoints are in most cases not on any airway so, that means a DCT/VECTOR must be follow to somewhere … I would understand the last waypoint of an SID (because this waypoints are in most cases on an airway) but the first one looks strange
Runway 25L @EDDB , you get a DCT to LULUL ok (it´s the first waypoint of the SUKIP1N) … and after that? ESIKA or DCT SUKIP or ???

I think I confused you a bit there by saying the first waypoint of the SID, of course I mean the last point of the SID, the waypoint the SID is actually named after.

By the way, I have tried a flightplan with the current cycle AIRAC 2203, from EDDB to EDDH (Dep 25L / Arr 05) and get this route:
GERG1N GERGA M725 RENKI L619 BUMIL M748 RARUP RARU4A

Yes, because GERGA is an eastbound SID and these have not been really changed. The route which you posted above is therefore fine.
Let’s give you a different example, Stuttgart, which is almost impossible to be filed via an eastbound rote unless it gets very creative (and prob. invalid). The first two SimBrief suggested routings are these ones:

ODLUN GALMA Z94 GORKO T726 LBU
ODLUN GALMA Z94 GORKO T726 TOSTU N624 NIKUT T726 LBU

Both are being routed via ODLUN.
If you look on the SID table for Berlin, you won’t find any ODLUN departures anymore, because ODLUN SID’s have been shortened down to be routed via a LOGDO SID and thereafter join the Z117 to ODLUN.
So no first waypoint ODLUN anymore, its now LOGDO and followed by Z117 ODLUN.

Lets validate the routes:
SimBrief route gives us the same error as yesterdays, ROUTE135: THE SID LIMIT IS EXCEEDED FOR AERODROME EDDB [EDDB5D] CONNECTING TO ODLUN.
If we modify it and add LOGDO Z117 ODLUN to it, the validation shows NO ERRORS. :slight_smile:

To close up, I want to give you an overview of the changes that have been made:

SOGMA is now SUKIP M748 SOGMA
HLZ is now SUKIP Y206 BUREL P203 HLZ
POVEL is now LOGDO Z20 MAG L986 POVEL
POVEL is now LOGDO Z20 MAG L986 POVEL
ODLUN is now LOGDO Z117 ODLUN.

Best regards,
Luciano

4

Hi Luciano,

Adding/updating IFPS compliant routes is a manual process.

I’ve added new routes for the most popular destinations out of EDDB, it should be a little better now.

Best regards,

1 Like
5

Thank you very much! :slight_smile:

6

This topic was automatically closed 2 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.