CYQB(Québec) problems with some STARs with RNAV24-Z

There is some problem with the RNAV24-Z @CYQB

1- With Pesac4 24 & Olavo4 24 STARs, when the leg PIKVO-BIVTI activates, the plane will turn left to an unknown heading

2- With the Simto4 24 STAR, there’s a waypoint that should not be there, making the flight doing some kind of loop. Usually, IKDEB should be the last waypoint before the airport, but instead, after IKDEB, the flight plan goes to BIVTI than back to IKDEB. BIVTI should not be there at all an need to be removed from that STAR

Thank you

Hi Etienne,
we can only look on the correctness of the data but we have no incluence of the interpretation of these data in the aircraft MCDUs/FMCs/Garmins. Also, I don´t know from which aircraft you´re speaking and therefore a more general answer.

In general there a known limitiation in the sim with STARs in combination with IAPs. In the last couple of weeks we were in direct contact with ASOBO due that and we add an posting in our forum for this with an showing example in the “Known issues” category in the next couple of days. This only as a general information.

I have looked into the data and have checked the flightpath in the worldmap (which is our primary indicator, if a procedure looks correct - again, we can only provide the data in the correct sequence with the correct waypoints but we have no influence about the interpretation).

Here a screenshot from the worldmap:

… and here the STAR:

and the IAP to 24:

You see, all waypoints are correct and also the sequence according the charts. But you see on the chart the red circle (or I have tried to make a circle :-)). That means normally this STAR ends in vectors and I know, that the sim interpret a vector with a 5nm waypoint on the current heading (or on a heading, didn´t know). So, it´s possible, that that is the reason for your issue. Again, this is an interpretation of the sim and has nothing todo with the data behind.

This issue is exactly the sim-limitation. When you select the STAR SIMTO4 24 only you see, that IKDEB is really the last waypoint and the flightpath is correct so far:

… but in that moment, when you select an specific approach (so away from the automatic), the path and also the flightplan will be changed immediately:

The reason is, that the sim adds the first Approach-Transition to the flightplan in this case as before from BIVTI. So the sim adds BIVTI - IKDEB - ULBOM - KISIK to the STAR which ends at IKDEB. Therefore, the aircraft this loop. Here the same, we have no incluence on that how the sim connect/link the different parts to each other. This is a confirmed limitation from ASOBO and we have no chance to change anything here.

One tip - try the Working-Title CJ4. This mod of the CJ4 uses his own developed procedure “linker”. The CJ4 uses exactly the same data in the sim and here you see, the correctness of the data and that they interpret the data correct.

Here from their FMC, where you see both approach-transitions (but not activated):

… and here you see the procedure on the ND:

Leg-pages 1 (SIMTO - IKDEB) thats the STAR:

Leg-page 2 (IKDEB on the 1st page - KISIK) thats the IAP:

That´s absolutely correct … sorry, but the internal sim logic has a few limitations and as you see on this 3rd party development, that the data are correct, when they will be interpreted correct.

Hope that helps

like you showed, in the planning there is 2 waypoint between PIKVO & BIVTI (SAVIN-KAVBI)
But when flying it, those 2 waypoints are missing and after PIKVO its straight to BIVTI, and that’s where the plane turn, not after BIVTI

*note that after PIKVO-BIVTI auto leg activation, PIKVO changed to USER
**it was with the Longitude and Working Title latest G3000 (v0.4 IIRC)

**with Working title’s CJ4

I see all waypoints on the WT CJ4 (latest stable version). Also the vector-point after BIVTI …

… and here the leg pages:



and last, when I removed the “vector” point:

So all waypoints are available

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strange. I’ll try to uninstall and reinstall Navigraph date + play with some mods. thx for your time
*seems I was on AIRAC 2014 rev4 / will try the new revision

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