I want to thank the Navigragh for the great job they’re doing, and for that I have a request to ask, there is a big community among the simulator pilots whom using the Aerowinx PSX including the professional full size flight deck simulators and training facilities.
I hope that you will consider supporting Aerowinx PSX by providing the current updated Navdata , and I’m sure that everyone using PSX will subscribe to you services.
Hopefully this request will have your attention as it is much needed.
In the past year we have only seen 4 users requesting this, including yourself. It we see increase in interest we can consider it, but at the moment we can’t justify the development.
The Navdata for Aerowinx PSX is a subject that always under discussion at the Aerowinx forum community, I’m not sure who has requested or who has not, but the fact is that there are big sim community whom are using PSX. I don’t know how much work that you need for development but can you give it a trial? I have been with Navigragh for a long time and really like it that’s why I was hoping for PSX navdata development.
Hi,
additional to Stephens answer, its not only the effort, which are normal for any new dataset …
One of the main points are a legal one, because we may only offer datasets for addons which are for the “gaming” but the PS1 can also be used as cerficate trainer for real world 744 pilots. In very simple words, the reality is much more complex (like regulations, copyrights, rules, …)
To make a little bit advertisment for our competitor: Aerosoft has such update one or twice per year.
I am certain there is more than 4 respective users of Aerowinx PSX that also subscribe to Navigraph’s services. Maybe you counted me in those 4 as well, but rest assured I know there is more of us. I have been with Navigraph for a very long time.
Licensing of PSX has changed in recent months, as Hardy announced that the product line is for enthusiasts. (please see Nav data for PSX: A new solution). This should make your efforts somewhat easier.
I know little how coding works, but my understanding is that Aerowinx PSX should be quite straight forward when it comes to add-ons.
Once again, thank you for consideration and hopefully you will allow your limited resources with this great (albeit not very common) flight simulator.
I agree with Andrej, there is definitely a demand from more than 4 user. The discussions in the Aerowinx forum make that pretty obvious.
Having developed NavData converters in the past, I understand what you mean. However, in the case of PSX, the conversion can be done by a software named NavBuro, developed by Aerowinx which is freely available to any user. This program reads any ARINC-424 standard database and converts it into PSX file formats. NavBuro has been actively developed and is known to successfully work with the databases of a number of different real world provicers, in particular the 3 major global ones plus the FAA database. Most likely there is zero development effort necessary on your side. Just give it a try on your side. (If you have any quesions on NavBuro, just ask.)
Servus Markus,
nice to see another flightsim “mammoth” here … hope all is fine on your side …
Thanks to your comment, also thank you @alippay2 Andrej for the link. Interessting, at least I haven´t known this. We will discuss this in our next meetings, how we can handle this …
As I wrote, it´s not the effort to create an addon dataset because this is our daily business and need the cooperation with the 3rd party addon developer. Till now, it was more a legal issue, which makes an update impossible. We will look what we can do in the future, possible it´s worth to contact Hardy to look what the current legal status is and if this fits now in our contracts too.
By the way, we will not use any converter, when we will offer the data, we will add the PSX dataset in our parser, so we need any technical documentation about the data structure. But its good to have such a converter ready to compare the outputs … that helps a lot …
Again, I will add this point for our next meeting …
Thank you & take care,
Richard
Hi, please add me in as another long time Navigraph customer interested in PSX navdata. I have also requested a Simlink version for PSX as well in other threads
nice to see another flightsim “mammoth” here … hope all is fine on your side …
thanks, everything fine. And I’m glad to see that something that started small - providing Navdata - is now a well recognized and well developed branch of flight simulation and quite obviously in very good hands.
Till now, it was more a legal issue
Agree, but as Andrej has pointed out, Hardy (see Andrej’s links) has changed his business model which seem to have helped. But that is no my area of expertise.
By the way, we will not use any converter, when we will offer the data, we will add the PSX
dataset in our parser, so we need any technical documentation about the data structure. But
its good to have such a converter ready to compare the outputs
On that topic, there is an interesting comment by Hardy from yesterday: <<< here >>> : using NavBuro (Aerowinx converter) is basically 3 mouse clicks and Aerosoft is just using that. All done.
If I may add a personal opinion here … I’m not sure if Hardy will go all the way of supporting development of a new converter when one is already existing. As I’ve said, we have already debugged NavBuro and ironed out all the issues (and I have to admit, I helped in debugging (a tiny little bit) ) - it’s really simple.
But how about one idea - maybe the converter can be made scriptable or accessible from the command line (it’s written in Java and thus platform independent)… maybe this helps, surely worth asking Hardy. I surely do understand your need to run conversion into all file formats from a workflow.
If interested, I’d be happy to show you more details on the NavBuro converter (in private discussion) or you just give yourself a try (if you have PSX)
Hi Markus,
tomorrow we have our weekly navdata dev meeting and we will discuss the PSX data request. Not sure, if we find immediately a decision but that you and all other PSX user know that the discussion starts …
This point could be a show-stopper, because we can´t support “black-boxes” as 3rd party converter, without the technical specifications, without to know about the structure. When we offer data, we are the first level support and our customer expect a direct answer because they pay for it. That doesn´t mean, that we don´t relay questions to the addon-devs (or forward the customer to the addon-forums/discords/ticketsystems/…) but thats in a second step, like a second level support.
A current typical example is the new MSFS - they offer us a external converter, but also the exact specification that we can look deeper into it and that we can re-parse it back to the original format. That´s a necessary point of us and without such specification, we can´t and we won´t support any addon.
But on the other hand, when a converter exists, we can use it in parallel till the specifications are added and tested in our parser. That makes our life also a little bit easier, because the customer can use the data immediately and we switch to our parser as soon as the data are equal to the data from NavBuro.
We will start the discussion tomorrow and will keep you informed about the process here. I also guess, that Stephen or Magnus should contact Hardy again according the new regulations/legal situation to find out if we can really now offer the monthly Jeppesen data.
In the meantime, thanks to you and all here for the support of PSX … We will look what we can do in the future/near future.
because we can´t support “black-boxes” as 3rd party converter, without the technical specifications, without to know about the structure.
understood. I forwarded this to Hardy and this was his reply on the Aerowinx forum:
I can document my nav data system when [you] ask for it. But it won't be easy to understand my system. There are special index files, for instance, and airways in the master file must first be defragmented and then validated for IDs that are similar but aren't to be connected etc. It's a lot of interdependent work. It's not just parsing.
So it might work out … I’ll leave from here on and trust that you might get into direct contact with Hardy, if applicable.
As we’ve seen a surge in interest recently, we’ve discussed this internally and with Hardy. With the move of PSX from the professional market we are now legally able to support it with navdata, so we’ve worked with Hardy on the integration. We now plan to add PSX to the regular navdata updates from cycle 2112 and onwards.
I have been with Navigraph for a very long time.
(If you have any quesions on NavBuro, just ask.)
… hope all is fine on your side …
… hope all is fine on your side …