Missing STAR's at EIDW

Navigation Data SID/STAR/APPR
1

Hi,

I was flying into EIDW last night (A310) and noticed there were a number of STAR’s missing from the navdata. I was looking to fly BAGS2Z however this was not presented as an option to me. Only BAGS1K and with 5 options from BAGSO at this airfield it appears there are multiple procedures missing.

I noticed that the A310 does not require navdata separate to the base sim (like Fenix, PMDG etc) so I did a few tests, checking each time my results using the world map planner:

  1. First removed scenery for EIDW - no change
  2. Did a reinstall of navigraph data, purging packages.xml (I know this is not necessarily going to do anything any more but thought I’d try) - no change
  3. At this point I thought I’d check a different aircraft that has the navigraph data installed separately - checked the Fenix and the correct procedures do appear in it’s MCDU
  4. Removed navigraph data completely - correct procedures appear once again

So it appears that the issue is not particularly with the navigraph data, but more so with the ‘sim wide’ base install of the (Navigraph) navdata.

I wonder if you can assist if I have mucked anything up or look into this.

EG.

With Navigraph:

image

Without:

image

Fenix with latest Navigraph AIRAC:

image

Note that I tested with the latest AIRAC & Rev. 2.

Thanks,
Rob

2

Hi Rob,
that is a general sim issue and that´s exactly the point, why 3rd party developer shouldn´t use the FSX bgl in-game navdata files.

The problem are the runways - in MSFS (stock scenery) you have only 2 runways 16/34 and 10R/28L:

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In reality you have 3 runways 16/34, 10R/28L and 10L/28R - now, when the sim can´t assigned a terminal procedure to a runway, the sim disable the procedure (specially the STARs). That´s the reason why you see ie. BAGS1K for 16 because this runway exists in MSFS, but BAGS2Z is for both 10L and 10R - the MSFS can´t assigned the procedure to 10L and therefore it will disabled completely and you can´t select it nowhere.

For PMDG, Fenix, Maddog and a lot of upcoming addons, they will use external databases to be completely independent to the MSFS data logic. In your example with the Fenix screenshot, you see that we have the data and the data are also included in the MSFS data but the logic in the MSFS suppress it. Normally, when you use a 3rd party scenery which is more up2date and which contains all runways you will see all terminal procedures immediately - no update from our side necessary, because the data are still included.

EIDW freeware scenery installed, which includes all runways and here, you see all STAR correctly, like in the Fenix:

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Sorry Rob, this is a sim limitation since day one with the in-game data and the MSFS logic behind. Here, we can´t do anything.

Cheers,

3

I understand, Richard, thanks! As with a few other aspects of the sim, this sounds quite familiar.

However, I am running the MK Studios scenery which surely includes the correct procedures and if I recall correct, I have flown before in the sim into that scenery via that route and others, hence the confusion.

I will contact MK Studios and see if they can offer any support on this front.

Thanks again for the clarification!

Rob

4

Hi again Rob,
I have tried it now in the A310 and I come to the same result as in the WorldMap - as soon as all runways are correct, you find the missing STARs. I don´t have the MK scenery, I only found a freeware scenery which includes all correct runways …

Here directly from the FMC (Freeware EIDW scenery installed - AIRAC 2211 rev. 2):
image

image

So, it should also work with the MK scenery (again, when the scenery has also all three runways)

Thank you,
Richard

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5

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