Incorrect flight plan export

Charts General
1

Working with Navigraph charts is sometimes strange and incomprehensible.
My way of creating a flight plan is as follows:

  1. Create a flight plan in Navigraph with Arrivals and Approaches.
  2. For GSX Pro, among other things, I import the Navigraph flight plan into Simbrief using EXPORT/Copy to Clipboard from Navigraph.

Now comes the strange thing:
With one flight plan all waypoints of the flight plan are displayed in Simbrief, with other flight plans they are not. Where they are not displayed, only one waypoint appears directly in the center of the runway.
This means that sometimes ALL waypoints are copied when exporting Navigraph, sometimes not.

See two different flight plans:
LOWI-LOWW with the said error
EDDM-EDDN with correct procedure

Incorrect Flighplan LOWI-LOWW
Incorrect Flighplan LOWI-LOWW1920×1007 166 KB

Correct Flightplan EDDM-EDDN
Correct Flightplan EDDM-EDDN1920×990 166 KB

2

Hello! Thanks for posting.

In the examples you posted, there is one significant detail that I believe should be pointed out: SimBrief does not currently include approaches! Both examples have been handled similarly: a DCT routing has been drawn from the last waypoint in the arrival to the destination.

Unfortunately, in the second example, this removal of the approach looks exactly the same as if the approach procedure had been included, so I can understand your confusion!

I hope this explains the situation! Let me know if you have any further questions.

Kind Regards,
Malte

3

Hello Malte, thanks for explanation.
To be honest, I still don’t understand it.
Either Navigraph saves all waypoints correctly and makes them available for Export/Copy to Clipboard or not.
If they are available, they are also displayed in Simbrief.

What is even more confusing:
When I open the pln file in MSFS, all waypoints are displayed and loaded correctly.
If I open the same pln flight plan in the FStarter24 tool, for example, the last waypoints are also not loaded. The route then ends in the middle of the runway.

So I still have major comprehension problems.

Kind regards
Kurt

4

Our route format is more complex than a list of waypoints! I’ll try to explain further. Here is what the route looks like when you copy it:

LOWI/26 RTT1R RTT DCT ABTAN ABTA2W LOWW/BAL4M.I29-Z

Notice how the enroute part ends with ABTAN. After that, there is the identifier for your chosen arrival procedure. After that, there is the airport along with your selected approach procedure.

All waypoints (such as ABTAN) will be loaded by SimBrief. Additionally, the arrival and departure procedures will be identified in a database, and all waypoints that make up that procedure will also be loaded in SimBrief. The approach procedure will not be considered at all, since SimBrief does not currently support approaches. None of the associated waypoints will be loaded, and thus none will be shown on the map as part of the route.

Since the ABTA2W arrival consists of the waypoints WW410, NIGSI and BALAD, that means that SimBrief will expand this route:

ABTAN ABTA2W LOWW/BAL4M.I29-Z

into this, when shown on the map (notice that the approach is omitted entirely):

ABTAN WW410 NIGSI BALAD LOWW

If you look inside the PLN file, you can see that there is a similar format there! Here is a snippet of that file in this specific case:

 <ATCWaypoint id="ABTAN">
    <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
    <WorldPosition>N47° 6' 49.00",E14° 29' 44.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
    <ArrivalFP>ABTA2W</ArrivalFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>
    <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>ABTAN</ICAOIdent>
        <ICAORegion>LO</ICAORegion>
    </ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="WW410">
    <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
    <WorldPosition>N47° 9' 45.01",E14° 46' 46.98",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
    <ArrivalFP>ABTA2W</ArrivalFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>
    <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>WW410</ICAOIdent>
        <ICAORegion>LO</ICAORegion>
    </ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="NIGSI">
    <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
    <WorldPosition>N47° 22' 9.00",E16° 2' 10.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
    <ArrivalFP>ABTA2W</ArrivalFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>
    <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>NIGSI</ICAOIdent>
        <ICAORegion>LO</ICAORegion>
    </ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="BALAD">
    <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
    <WorldPosition>N47° 46' 0.21",E16° 14' 2.56",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
    <ArrivalFP>ABTA2W</ArrivalFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>
    <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>BALAD</ICAOIdent>
        <ICAORegion>LO</ICAORegion>
    </ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
<ATCWaypoint id="LOWW">
    <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
    <WorldPosition>N48° 6' 37.08",E16° 34' 10.92",+000600.00</WorldPosition>
    <SuffixFP>Z</SuffixFP>
    <ApproachTypeFP>ILS</ApproachTypeFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>
    <ICAO>
        <ICAOIdent>LOWW</ICAOIdent>
    </ICAO>
</ATCWaypoint>
</FlightPlan.FlightPlan>

Notice how all the arrival waypoint entries have a tag called ArrivalFP, containing the procedure’s identifier. In this case, we have expanded the procedure into the waypoints it consists of, much like SimBrief does. However, notice that the approach procedure has not been expanded in the same way. Instead, it is only mentioned in the last part of this snippet, in the form of:

    <SuffixFP>Z</SuffixFP>
    <ApproachTypeFP>ILS</ApproachTypeFP>
    <RunwayNumberFP>29</RunwayNumberFP>

This is according to the specification for the PLN format, and for good reason. The simulator won’t and shouldn’t expand the approach into waypoints! For example, many approach procedures are based on bearings and distances to radio navaids and are not technically defined in terms of waypoints. Thus, it is up to the instruments in your aircraft to depict and aid in navigating the procedure in a true-to-life way. Different avionics handle this in different ways.

That also explains this:

This could be due to at least two different reasons:

  1. The utility in question has decided not to support approaches, thus not bothering to load them at all (like SimBrief). This could be due to the complexity of adding support, but it could also be due to missing a reliable data source such as Navigraph Navigation data.

  2. The utility has incomplete support for the PLN format and is unable to read the approach procedure correctly

I can’t tell which is correct since I did not develop this utility and have not used it.

I hope this sheds some additional light on the situation! The important part is that arrival procedures are commonly based on waypoints, while approach procedures are often based on radio aids such as ILS, VOR, and NDBs. The latter can be hard to present correctly in a visual context, such as a map - requiring significant effort. This is why many tools leave it out.

Best Regards,
Malte

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