Confusion with Simbrief

FMS Data General
#1

Hi,

I’m new to Navigraph so bear with me but I just subbed for year to Navigraph as my goal is indeed to have unified data across simbrief, simtoolkit pro, fs2020 and obviously the tool itself looks great.
I hope this is the right place to ask this question?

I created a flight plan following this youtube guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H39yeTKKK1s
I updated the simbrief airac already so I was expecting data to match. Doesn’t look simbrief has a way to actually import things so I ended up copying/pasting the route text which was as below following the video

CYWG/31 VOGIG2 VOGIG DCT VLR J500 VLN J504 YEA DCT ILADA TOTUB4 CYYC/BOTAX.R11-Z

When pasted in simbrief and clicking analyze it comes back with:

Error: Airway “R11” uses invalid endpoints.
Error: Fix or airway “VOGIG2” not found.
Error: Fix or airway “TOTUB4” not found.
Error: Fix or airway “Z” not found.
Route distance: 654 nm (+ 1.7%).

I don’t understand why it wouldn’t find those fixes/airways given the Airac would be the same? Bottom line how can I create a flightplan in Navigraph and get it to match in Simbrief?

Thanks

Stefaan

New to NG and SimBrief, need help
#2

Stefaan,

As you noted, there are no import functions in SimBrief, and that is because usually SimBrief is used for the actual planning being a dedicated flight planner. (There is a direct import function from SimBrief to Navigraph Charts, for example, to use routes created with SimBrief in Navigraph Charts.)

That said, yes the routes are compatible if they are on the same cycle. The issue is with the copy-paste. In Charts, you can set an approach to your route, which is not supported in SimBrief. This is the part after the destination airport (/BOTAX.R11-Z). Furthermore, the departure runway is not supported in the route string either (/31), runways are set as specific inputs in the “Optional Entries” when creating the SimBrief flight. If you remove these two, the route (CYWG VOGIG2 VOGIG DCT VLR J500 VLN J504 YEA DCT ILADA TOTUB4 CYYC) validates:

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#3

Thank you, figured as much in the mean time that SID/STARS can’t be copied across.
I have some more questions though. Just created a flightplan:

EGMS - LEMG

In Simbrief and then imported into NG the route is as follows:

NUGB1R NUGBO M183 SILVA COWLY Q41 SAM N63 LELNA UN621 BASIK UN90 NOVAN UN864 DELOG CRISA UN864 VULPE VULP2K

Of which DELOG to CRISA is showing as ‘direct’, not using an airway once visible in NG.

Making the same plan in NG has a nicer route using airways at each leg.

EGSS NUGBO DCT UPALO UN862 TERPO UT176 DESAB UN867 NENEM UP75 NEA UN864 VULPE LEMG

Not sure what is done in the real world but I’m assuming airways are kinda mandatory for flightplans for airliners or are direct routes commonplace? I guess if the waypoints are in the DB we’ll get there but I wonder what would be considered best practice?
Create a flightplan in Simbrief first with all the parameters but then also create it in NG to then copy/paste the route back in simbrief ensuring we have airways being used? Or is this just a level of pedanticness that is just creating busy work for myself. I don’t see a way for simbrief to force it to use airways.

But what I’m realy interested in is the next step after these:

  1. Created my plan in SB
  2. Imported the SB plan in NG
  3. Loaded the SB plan in FS2020

So everything now matches but the SID/STAR data has not been entered yet.
So I now manually add this in both the FS flight planner and NG and then I would have a matching plan start to finish yes?
I probably won’t enter the STAR until nearing my destination but now that FS2020 has the same AIRAC the A320 MCDU would then also have the matching STAR and I should see my plane flying the STAR in the moving map within NG?
I’ll try all this out but I just want to make sure that my expectations at least are correct.

Quick question re the AIRAC, I’m confused that the FMS data was still entered via your tool within FS2020 as to my understanding FS2020 also had the same matching AIRAC already since an update or 2 ago? Is your FMS data tool simply ensuring that the monthly updates will always be correct in case MS lags behind as they aren’t updating at that 28 days rate?

Thanks again for your time.

Stefaan

#4

Stefaan,

This is not true, your SID and STAR created in SimBrief does carry across into Charts. Just make sure you use the Import -> From Simbrief function in Navigraph Charts - do not manually copy and paste routes from Simbrief.

Please check this video on how to import a flight som SimBrief to Navigraph:

When you have that flight imported in Navigraph Charts you can export it to MSFS, again including both SID and STAR. We have a video on that too: 16. Export Flight Plans from Navigraph Charts to Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020

You can also load the SB flight plan in FS2020 as you noted, I had expected SID and STAR to be imported too but if it doesn’t then export it from Navigraph as described above.

Airways are normally used in airspaces where such exist, but in many parts of Europe for example, airspaces are transitioning to “Free Route Airspace” (FRA) where there are no airways. As for the different routing, we have different optimization algorithms, but both are likely valid.

We always update the data on AIRAC release day, as we have in the past 15 years, so our data is guaranteed to be current. Furthermore, the data is not the same - we source our data from Jeppesen, which generally has the widest and most accurate coverage of all navigational databases. There are quite a number of procedures added/corrected by our data. Another benefit is that our data also ensures the same naming convention for terminal waypoints, so that the data in the sim perfectly matches our charts.

Cheers,

Stephen

1 Like
#5

Thanks, those videos helped to clear up a few things. I wasn’t aware that simbrief handled sid/stars unless I use the routefinder to then add a sid and star. I did that in SB and imported it into NG, that’s looking promising, FS2020 also imported the SID but not the STAR in the top menu selections although the flight plan legs still matched the NG route. The only thing missing were the ‘waypoint names’ wichh appear on the STAR chart but I don’t see that as becoming an issue given the route legs still line up visually.

So the only thing I am left with is the arrival approach showing as a dotted line still to tag onto the STAR to add closer to arrival. Things are starting to come together now.

Very impressive product I have to say, imo you really want to advertise a lot more aggressively that you can run this in demo mode! I reckon you would get a lot more customers that way as I assumed everything was exclusively available to subscribers and it was the demo use that impressed me enough by means of a hands on impression which subsequently led me to subscribe.

On a different note I see some other posts about ILS issues so does that mean that the AIRAC data includes the ILS GS/LOC figures as well or is that built into the sim’s airport data separately from the AIRAC?

Thanks

#6

I created a plan in SimBrief and brought it into Navigraph. I added an approach and exported to an MSFS pln file. After importing that plan file into MSFS, I typically do not want to start directly on a runway, so I change my departure to a gate or fuel box. Doing so changes routing and it no longer matches NG. Is there a way around this?

#8

No, it is how the MSFS flight planner works. Don’t edit anything in the world map, only edit inside the cockpit FMC.

#9

I never had an issue changing my starting position to a gate or parking though instead of the runway, that should be fine without it impacting the loaded flightplan as I assume most us start cold & dark. Just don’t touch anything else but that!

#10

@stefaandk: I always start C&D but, unfortunately, changing to a gate, parking area, or to a fuel box usually changes the imported flight plan.

#11

@stephen: So how would I change from the runway to a gate, parking area, or fuel box within the flight deck’s FMC/FMS?

#12

As of today you have to use the drop-down box in the MSFS world planner after importing your Navigraph/Simbrief plan. Only by using the drop-down box for changing runway start to a gate/parking you will not mess with the loaded plan.

#13

Hi
I’m not sure if this will help you, but it might give you some idea’s to work on.
‘Fly by Wire’ has a new A320 add-on aircraft (Free) , which enables you to download your flight plan from SimBrief directly into your MCDU, videos available on YouTube.
This will load your fuel weight, passenger weight, route Etc into your aircrafts MCDU. (Only the 'Fly-By-Wire A320 at the moment)
I found that before you construct your flight plan Etc, use the default MS2020 ‘World’ and just enter the starting airport and the gate of your choice.
Once you are ‘At the Gate’, construct your flight plan (A second monitor makes this easier, and I remain cold and dark, I haven’t tried it after start-up), then load your flight plan into your MCDU.
CAUTION :warning: I am new to NG, and still experimenting, but hopefully this will give you some idea’s.
Merry Christmas
Pete