Hi, the VAPUP 1Y STAR data for Split LDSP, at least for the Fenix A320, contain all the waypoints from VAPUP to the last approach waypoint RORKA (before the visual segment), while they should stop at LASUL and then the LASUL transition should be selected (that contains the remaining waypoints from LASUL to RORKA).
Furher, in the LASUL transition the holding over LASUL should be removed (I select to hold if I am instructed, but I am not obliged to hold). Could you please check? Thanks.

All is correct so far. You don’t fly the holding but according the AIP the holding is coded and the same happens in our data.


Hi Richard. Ok for the holding, but the wrong thing is that, if I select VAPUP 1Y, I get all the route until RORKA, including the transition from LASUL onward… If you look at the chart, VAPUP 1Y ends at LASUL. Do you confirm?


Does the Fenix A320 automatically load the approach transition?

Here with FSL version having selected the approach then STAR the required transition is inserted:



And if I select ony the VAPUP 1Y STAR:


Hi, also in the Fenix the transition is usually needed. I should check in other cases, but in this one if I select VAPUP 1Y the transition is automatically loaded up to RORKA. Anyway APPR VIAS → LASUL is selectable, but it just overlaps the wayponts of the last segment (from LASUL to RORKA), with the only difference that at LASUL a holding is added. Could you please check what happens in the FSLabs if you only load VAPUP 1Y, without transition? What waypoints does it load?

The STAR only terminates at LASUL as the previous image.

Adding the RNV23V approach without VIA results in the waypoints through to RORKA without the LASUL hold:


Thanks. In the Fenix, if I select only the STAR (VAPUP 1Y), nothing is added. This is a bug and needs to be looked into. If I then select the app RNAV V 23, the STAR from VAPUP to LASUL does NOT appear, but only the transition from LASUL to RORKA, so the only waypoints that are listed are LASUL, SP509, NURAT, RORKA (and the missed approach SP502, SP503, LASUL, MANUAL), no waypoints from VAPUP to LASUL.

If on the other end I select RNAV V 23 first, I get the waypoints from LASUL to RORKA. Then, if I select the STAR VAPUP 1Y, the rest of the waypoints from VAPUP to LASUL appear. No use that I also select the LASUL transition (APP VIA), since it’s already there, apart from the holding on LASUL.

In few words, there is a big confusion with STAR, APP and APP transition… The correct waypoint sequence should be: when selecting STAR → VAPUP, KEMIX, SP701; when selecting APP VIA LASUL → SP701, LASUL; when selecting APP RNAV V 23 → LASUL, SP509, NURAT, RORKA.

There is definitely something wrong, the coding for the Fenix is not correct… Navigraph should not think that they just need to do things like in the FSLabs and all will be ok…

No, when selecting STAR only it should be STAR → VAPUP, KEMIX, SP701,LASUL as per AIP and chart and image 3 above.

Yes, sorry, that’s right, but anyway in the Fenix it’s wrong, because:

  1. If I select the STAR first, no waypoints are shown, none and the ‘VIA’ field in the middle is dashed…
  2. If I select the APPR RNAV V 23 first, all the waypoints from LASUL to RORKA are shown. Then, if I select the VAPUP 1Y STAR, the same waypoints are shown, with the “VIA” field in the middle still dashed. If I then select LASUL in <APPR VIAS, the holding on LASUL is added and ‘LASUL’ appears in the ‘VIA’ field in the middle.

In theory, there should NOT be the APPR VIA LASUL waypoint, because it’s already included in the STAR…
Again, looks like a big confusion…

So if you select the RNV app then the STAR everything is correct.

You would only add the transition to implement the published hold. There is no issue.

If you select only RWY23 ( no app procedure ) then the STAR do the waypoints populate and terminate at LASUL?

Yes, the waypoints populate, fom VAPUP to LASUL.

In my opinion the transition is wrong, there should be no LASUL transition, only STAR (VAPUP to LASUL) and then approach from LASUL on.

But that is highly likely implemented by Jeppesen and not specific to NG.

Just as information because I don´t accept such blame to us … The coding in our database is correct - when not, please explain and let us know what is wrong …

According our data the STAR is coded as a common part in the following sequence:
there is no STAR transition available

When I enter the VAPU1Y STAR via the RNAV 23-V then I get following:

So you see the last waypoint from VAPU1Y is LASUL - the same coding as we have directly in our database.

The next waypoint sequences are from the RNAV 23-V final approach:

There are three approach-transitions available:

The LASUL approach transition is “only” necessary, when you want to fly the holding, without you don´t need any transition because as I wrote, the STAR ends at LASUL and the final approach starts at LASUL according the charts and also the real-world AIP.

So, I´m not sure, where you see a data issue here. I see more a user-issue because you have entered the LASUL approach transition also, so you have an additional holding leg and that´s was your initial question.

Sorry, I don´t see any data issue here, nor any issue in the Fenix - all looks absolutely correct.


Ok, I apologise Richard, I have been too abrupt, now everything is clear.
All this comes out of Pro ATC SR clearance: “Expect STAR VAPUP 1Y, RNAV V 23 approach, transition LASUL”.
The approach transition was confusing me. So, according to that clearance, the ATC gave me that transition clearance because they wanted me to hold over LASUL? The use of the approach transition is always when a holding is intended?
Thanks and sorry again.

In this case yes.

No, not all transitions implement a hold.

The answer from @srcooke is absolutely correct …


Thanks sirs.
Just one more doubt: where do you get from the AIP charts about the LASUL approach transition? How do you understand that that transition means holding over LASUL?

There is no direct reference to the procedure as a transition, however the relevant entry is at the foot of the tabular data:

Additional to @srcooke answer:
When you look on the charts you see the holding at LASUL with the additional Information IAF/IF … on this you can see, that the approach starts at LASUL and you don´t need any transition - normally, when you see a holding on an IAF/IF waypoint you can expect a own approach-transition with this holding because a common part of a STAR can´t be ended into a holding.


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