Duplicate location of KFK VOR

Navigation Data General non MSFS data
1

Hello,

I am openning this ticket because old one is locked Wrong Location of KFK VOR

I was creating a flightplan and I realised something is wrong with the planner UT54/UR32 airway is probably duplicated because simbrief reads wrong location of the Airway and KFK VOR which I had on Euroscope on VATSIM on previous post.

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Route is LTAR > LTBJ
ADVOK GEM UW705 HAY UT54 KFK UR32 KINIK UT54 TUMER UR32 NESET UT54 KULAR

Between ROLVI > KFK > KINIK the location of KFK VOR is wrong rendered by Simbrief, correct one is Airway Map.

2

Tested on the SIM and put KFK on aircraft

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WPT one is the incorrect one NDB and VORDME is the correct Navaid.

3

Looking at an older extract from the AIP I can see this is the location of the KFK TACAN beacon, which is coded as a terminal waypoint, being used in the ILS 31R Z of LTAH, so it’s not a matter of incorrect location but rather probably wrong table being used (wp instead of navaid).

4

kfk
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5

Hi,
All three entries are correct, at least what we have in our source.

KFK is

  1. a terminal RNAV waypoint (38.72113889, 30.61280556)
  2. an enroute NDB (38.80413889, 30.54683333)
  3. and a VORDME (38.80413889, 30.54683333)

I can´t see any issue here, at least in the sim (and/or a/c).

If I understand you correctly, you have planned the flight directly in our app, in SimBrief, or where? You have not loaded an existing flight plan from somewhere, right?

Cheers,
Richard

1 Like
6

Planning a flight between LTAR and LTBJ in simbrief as the OP mentioned I see the auto-routing is done through the TACAN instead of the VOR as would be expected. The TACAN is coded as a terminal waypoint and should not be used in airways.
I opened the .fms export of the flight plan in LNM and it also goes over the TACAN instead of the VOR.

kfk2
kfk21685×377 172 KB

7

Simbrief and Navdata for all sims should use KFK VOR instead of KFK TACAN, currently both platforms use TACAN.

8

To clarify - the enroute records correctly specify the KFK VOR (checked in FSLab), but Simbrief defaults to the waypoint and thus generated flightplans will not use the VOR.

9

In the NG database for XP12, I can only find the VOR and NDB (which appear to be colocated):

% grep KFK earth_nav.dat | grep -v IKFK | grep -v KFKA | grep -v KFKL | grep -v KFKR
 3  38.804138889   30.546833333     3340    11220   130      5.000  KFK ENRT LT AFYON VOR/DME
12  38.804138889   30.546833333     3340    11220   130      0.000  KFK ENRT LT AFYON VOR/DME
 2  38.804138889   30.546833333        0      324    25      0.000  KFK ENRT LT AFYON NDB

The airway data says this:

% grep KFK earth_awy.dat | grep -e R32 -e T54
  KFK LT  3 HALIL LT 11 N 1  95 285 R32
  KFK LT  3 HALIL LT 11 N 2 285 660 UR32
  KFK LT  3 KINIK LT 11 N 1  95 285 R32-T54
  KFK LT  3 KINIK LT 11 N 2 285 660 UR32-UT54
  KFK LT  3 ROLVI LT 11 N 1  95 285 T54
  KFK LT  3 ROLVI LT 11 N 2 285 660 UT54

(not sure what this format contains re: waypoint disambiguation)
(edit: or it looks like disambiguation is doe via region code LT and navaid type 3/VOR)
(perhaps the Simbrief issue – see below – is due to to the disambiguation information being either absent or ignored by SB?)

GNS430 airways:

% grep -A20 -F -e "R32," -e "T54," ATS.txt | grep -F -e "R32," -e "T54," -e KFK | grep -F -e HALIL -e KINIK -e R32 -e T54 | grep -v AR32 | grep -v CTR32 | grep -v -F "T54,5"
A,R32,21
S,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,77,77,25.97
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,HALIL,39.390556,32.357778,77,63,91.37
A,R32,21
S,HALIL,39.390556,32.357778,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,243,244,91.37
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,243,257,25.97
A,T54,17
S,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,77,76,25.97
A,T54,17
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,243,257,25.97
A,UR32,21
S,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,77,77,25.97
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,HALIL,39.390556,32.357778,77,63,91.37
A,UR32,21
S,HALIL,39.390556,32.357778,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,243,244,91.37
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,243,257,25.97
A,UT54,17
S,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,77,76,25.97
A,UT54,17
S,KFK,38.804139,30.546833,KINIK,38.732222,29.999444,243,257,25.97

…the latter clearly indicates the VOR and/or NDB (KFK,38.804139,30.546833), so presumably the Navigraph data including airway information is correct, as far as I can tell?

But for some reason Simbrief does not route via the KFK VOR above:

Screenshot 2025-01-08 at 17.18.20
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% grep " KFK " earth_fix.dat
 38.721138889   30.612805556    KFK LTAH LT 4595794 KFK

…is what appears to be used.

Regards,

Tim

10

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