Cannot find a STAR at RCKH?

Dear Navigraph, I am a new user of your product. Took a one-month subscription a few moments ago to see how it goes first.

I am trying to plan a flight from VHHH to RCKH. ILS Landing Rnw 27, a STAR named PORCH 1B should be available, according to the following AIP <here>. Link from the most update AIRAC from the Taiwanese civil aviation.

I can’t find it in Navigraph. Am I doing something wrong ?

Thank you,

Jean.

EDIT: Ok, I now see an old thread on this approach, I understand that it cannot be coded. Does this mean that ANY STAR that will involve an ARC-DME won’t be in Navigraph ?

Hi Jean,
first of all welcome in the Navigraph family. We are happy to join us :blush:

To your specific question:
No DMEARCs are included (worldwide) but to code a DMEARC there are a few mandatory parameter which must be set. One of it is, that the ARC must reference to a VOR/VORDME or a TACAN VOR. When this is not the case (as here in the PORCH1B arrival) you can’t code it in the data.

You see the reference navaid on the ARC, it the IKAS ILSDME facility, therefore not codeable.

Other ARCs (which fullfill the requirements) are coded as expected.

Hope that helps, when not please ask again :slight_smile:

Cheers
Richard

Thanks Richard, this is consistent with what you had told Frailis Marco <here> so no surprise. Thankfully this type of approach is rather uncommon these days. It just happened to be one of the first arrivals I tried to pull to learn how to use Navigraph yesterday. Tough luck !

For my education though, in the other thread you refer to ARINC424, which until now I didn’t know what it was so I had a look. Found <this>.

What I’m not clear is, is the inability to code a restriction specific to Navigraph, or everyone including - real life - airlines ? Because a number of airlines (HK Express for which Frailis Marco is flying for, EVA Air, Japan Airlines, Air Canada, China Airlines, ANA, Vietnam Airlines, Mandarin, CX etc the list is endless) are flying to RCKH and they can’t all have problems coding this particular arrival and rely on legacy coding from a time when the DME was linked to another, ARINC 424 capable, beacon, correct ? Or do pilots requested to fly this arrival have to declare to the controller that they are unable to fly it because… it couldn’t be coded in their FMS :joy:?..

What I’m saying is, I presume if the Taiwanese civil aviation publishes this arrival, is that it can be… used. Do you happen to know the real-life mechanisms that allow airlines to actually fly it ?

EDIT: I have another question. Does this mean that Jappensen has no chart for this Arrival ?
EDTI 2: But then Frailis Marco says he has this Arrival in his real plane so obviously he must have the chart too… I would think…

Hi,

Thank you very much for your detailed answer and the follow up of course :wink: I will try to answer it as well as I can:

  1. The term ARINC424:
    This is more or less the standard format for the navigational data. It’s a kind of rule set and the specification of each record and column. It’s standardized between the different data provider. That means independent from where you get the data (from which provider), you can be sure that you can “read” with this specification.

  2. To the main topic:
    The data are split into a standard and tailored format. The specification itself (so the ruleset as described above) are the same, but airlines themselves have different requirements. Therefore the data provider offers here tailored datasets per airline. That makes no sense for us because we want to offer a worldwide database, airline independent.

So, I’m pretty sure, that such special procedures will be added as tailored records for the specific airlines - “not code able” means not code able with the standard ruleset what you get from the AIP, but it doesn’t mean that you can’t code as tailored record and that’s the case here in your examples.

As I wrote, each airline has different requirements, different routes, … and therefore some airlines request such tailored records which will create manually by the data provider and where the airlines pay an extra fee for that.

Long text, short:
We offer “only” the standard worldwide dataset which follows the standard ARINC424 rules and here we don’t have such DMEARCs, which are not corresponding to these rules, including.

Hopefully its understandable but such topics can be very complex … So, don’t hesitate to ask again, when something is still unclear …

Thank you for the question :wink:
Richard

Thanks Richard for the response, very clear. In short, airlines order custom procedures. From “data providers”. Do you happen to know who these data providers are ? Is Jeppesen one of them for example ?

No probs … I assume, that all data provider offer such custom data for their airlines but Jeppesen does it for sure.

Cheers
Richard

1 Like

This topic was automatically closed 2 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.