Doing a flight to LPMA, when trying to select the Approach RNP A for 05 or RNP B 23, both are shown under “other options” and when selected it gives a “Procedure xx does not connect to Runway xx and will be removed”
Although the last segment is visual, it’s still a procedure for the specific runway, and should be proposed and taken as such. Maybe it could even be connected to the Visual Approach procedure (so connect 12-1 to 12-1A and 12-2 to 12-2A)
Any feedback possible?
Hi,
Sorry overseen this postings.
The RNP approaches are not connected to a runway and has also no visual segment. Where do you see the visual segment?
Take the RNP VISUAL instead of the normal RNP approach - you can’t select two approaches to the same time. Not in the planner, nor in any FMC. So, either you take the RNP or the RNP VISUAL both are not possible.
Hope that helps
Richard
Hey Richard, thanks for following up
you mean RNP approaches in general are not connected to a runway, or in Madeira?
Because they very much are at LPMA. RNP A RWY 05 (chart 12-1) is for rwy 05 as is the RNP VISUAL APPROACH RWY 05 (12-1A). For runway 23, RNP B RWY 23 (12-2) and RNP VISUAL APPROACH RWY 23 (12-2A). All those approaches are Runway dependent.
As for visual segment, even if not displayed on 12-1 and 12-2, after the MAPt the approach is done visually, under the guidance of 12-1A and 12-2A
As for taking either RNP A or RNP Visual, RNP Visual is not a coded procedure, so a) it doesn’t show on FMC, b) it’s not even proposed on Charts as an approach
An extra note, that I just went on ToLiss ot confirm, you have an incorrect relation coding on RNP A and B. Like stated above, RNP A is only for 05 and RNP B is only for 23.
FMC database suggests both can be used for either runway, which should be rectified
So, it does seem like RNP A is indeed meant for landing on runway 05, and RNP B for 23, as indicated e.g. at the top of the chart:
There are showing as runway-specific in the chart list as well:
But in the navdata, they are considered “runway-agnostic”, so to speak:
Which probably comes from the source data, I would think.
Regards,
Tim
Richard, the RNP A for runway 05 ends with a visual segment, it’s not a matter of codification in the FMS or not, it’s just how it is. Check the regional charts provided on the national AIP before anyone jumps into conclusion. You have to change to a visual segment, but it’s still considered a RNP approach with specific ceiling and visibility requirements.
Regards,
Miguel
The RNP A/B are CTL approaches, that means without any runway waypoint in it. The runway itself on the charts is important because of course, there is a visual segment to a specific runway (as in the charts mentioned). But again, the RNP A/B has NO runway-waypoint/connection - not on the charts, nor in the data - in other words, the final is missing because the final is the visual segment.
Here the coding from the AIP Portugal - there is no specific runway included (excluding in the text and therefore also on the charts):
Therefore, according the ARINC424 standard, this procedure can only be coded as CTL approach and thats the case here. This is not a conclusion or a assumption this is a fact. So, when you select the RNP A/B approach, your approach ends at the MAP MA566 or MA562 - after that you must fly the rest visually (according the charts).
Cheers,
Richard
Hey Richard,
Thanks, I’m aware! My reply was just based on the fact that you started to mention two approaches being selected, where it makes no sense, hence my comment.
Miguel
