Is there an issue with KEWR Departures?

BigCow74 · March 22, 2024, 2:54pm

I didn’t see a topic on this searching on “KEWR” so maybe this is the first time this has been officially asked here?

There has been a long-standing discussion on the MSFS forums regrading KEWR departures that can break LNAV/GPS navigation after takeoff. There has been some discussion from the Working Title team that there might be something “unique” in the Navigraph departure information for KEWR that breaks navigation.

Here is one particular post with some feedback. Has this ever been investigated or understood from the Navigraph side?

NAVData · March 24, 2024, 10:11am

Hi,
according the FAA database, KEWR has only ONE departure route coded, the PORTT4 departure. All other departures are vector departures and therefore the FAA don´t include such departure routes at KEWR.

Here directly from the CIFS data of the FAA database:

SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT44RW22B 010         0        VA                     2188        + 00518     18000                        831231804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT44RW22B 020BAGGAK6PC0E       DF                                                  220               -     831241804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT44RW22B 030PORTTK6PC0EE      TF                                                                          831251804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46BIGGY 010PORTTK6PC0E       IF                                             18000                        831261804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46BIGGY 020RIETAK6PC0E       TF                                                                          831271804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46BIGGY 030SBJ  K6D 0V       TF                                                                          831281804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46BIGGY 040BIGGYK6EA0EE      TF                                                                          831291804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46ELIOT 010PORTTK6PC0E       IF                                             18000                        831301804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46ELIOT 020SIRLYK6PC0E       TF                                                                          831311804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46ELIOT 030FENLYK6PC0E       TF                                                                          831321804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46ELIOT 040ELIOTK6EA0EE      TF                                                                          831331804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46LANNA 010PORTTK6PC0E       IF                                             18000                        831341804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46LANNA 020RIETAK6PC0E       TF                                                                          831351804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46LANNA 030SBJ  K6D 0V       TF                                                                          831361804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46LANNA 040LANNAK6EA0EE      TF                                                                          831371804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46PARKE 010PORTTK6PC0E       IF                                             18000                        831381804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46PARKE 020RIETAK6PC0E       TF                                                                          831391804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46PARKE 030SBJ  K6D 0V       TF                                                                          831401804
SUSAP KEWRK6DPORTT46PARKE 040PARKEK6EA0EE      TF                                                                          831411804

Jeppesen codes each departures, also the vector departures - so:
DEVL1 and EWR5 plus the PORTT4 departure - the LIB5 can´t be coded because the “initial climb” can also be “assigned by ATC” - So, that´s the starting position.

The KEWR departures contains two phases:
One is the initial route and the second is a vector routing. So, the vector “breaks” (or better results in a “DISCON” normally) the LNAV mode of course because it is coded as VECTOR which can end somewhere depending in the ATC. The initial climb is coded in our database (and by the way thats not unique as WT mentioned). but all runway-transitions ends in a VM leg = Heading to a manual termination (defines a specific heading until a manual termination - mostly due a ATC command) which results in the “break” of LNAV … the next step is, to enter the next waypoint MANUALLY (that´s what the VM leg says) - that´s absolutely normal and I don´t see any issue here.

These segments are also coded as VM leg, which will be supported by MSFS (at least according the navdata schema).

I have also looked deeper into the EWR5 departure, because WT mentioned that we reference to a facilitiy which isn´t found in the sim anywhere. Would be interesting which one because all reference facilities are in the sim …

Here the source part how the EWR5 is coded (look on the recommendedIdent):

<Departure name="EWR5">
	<RunwayTransitions>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="04" designator="LEFT">
			<Leg type="VA" magneticCourse="39.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="IEZA" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="55.0" distance="4.0N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VR" turnDirection="L" recommendedType="VOR" recommendedIdent="TEB" recommendedRegion="K6" theta="214.0" magneticCourse="290.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="2500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="290.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="04" designator="RIGHT">
			<Leg type="VA" magneticCourse="39.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="IEZA" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="55.0" distance="4.0N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VR" turnDirection="L" recommendedType="VOR" recommendedIdent="TEB" recommendedRegion="K6" theta="214.0" magneticCourse="290.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="2500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="290.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="11" designator="NONE">
			<Leg type="VA" magneticCourse="108.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="420F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="IEZA" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="60.0" distance="4.0N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VR" turnDirection="L" recommendedType="VOR" recommendedIdent="TEB" recommendedRegion="K6" theta="214.0" magneticCourse="290.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="2500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="290.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="22" designator="LEFT">
			<Leg type="VA" magneticCourse="219.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="500F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="ILSQ" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="190.0" distance="2.3N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="220.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="22" designator="RIGHT">
			<Leg type="VA" magneticCourse="219.0" altitudeDescriptor="+" altitude1="420F" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="ILSQ" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="190.0" distance="2.3N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="220.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
		<RunwayTransitionLegs number="29" designator="NONE">
			<Leg type="VD" recommendedType="TERMINAL_WAYPOINT" recommendedIdent="IGPR" recommendedRegion="K6" magneticCourse="288.0" distance="1.4N" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
			<Leg type="VM" magneticCourse="265.0" isIAF="FALSE" isIF="FALSE" isFAF="FALSE" isMAP="FALSE" />
		</RunwayTransitionLegs>
	</RunwayTransitions>
	<CommonRouteLegs />
	<EnrouteTransitions />
</Departure>

In total, I see 4 different reference facilities:
IEZA (as terminal waypoint)
ILSQ (as terminal waypoint)
IGPR (as terminal waypoint)
and the TEB (as VOR)

Now I have looked, which one is missing in the MSFS … none, I found all

So, all 4 are included - I can´t see any missing facility here, which “should” be missing. Further, when this would be really the case (root cause) that anything is missing in the navdata files, the ASOBO compiler returns an error and you can’t built the bgls. Only as a side note.

Hope that helps,
Richard

NAVData · March 24, 2024, 7:12pm

A short update to this:
I was just in contact with WT and possible, when we change something slightly in our coding, we can support the 787 too with such procedures.

I will test the suggestion from WT in the next couple of days and when these tests are positive, we will release a second revision of 2403.

Keep you informed …
Cheers
Richard

NAVData · March 25, 2024, 12:03pm

Hi folks,
I have just released AIRAC 2403 revision 2.

This version contains the logical change in the terminal procedures what WT suggested. I have made a few tests and at least for me it looks good, but I´m not really a hardcore simmer - so, whenever you find time, please test the new revision and let me know, if it´s fixed …

Thank you very much,
Richard

BigCow74 · March 25, 2024, 1:10pm

I had to laugh at this. Well, you may not fly a lot, but I think you are a hard core contributor. Thanks for your continued active support.

system · March 27, 2024, 1:11pm

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Is there an issue with KEWR Departures?

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