Dear Gents,
would it be possible to apply a function, similar to the ETOPS function, to draw a certain amount of adequate aerodromes with their 60min circle (-> One-Engine Inoperative Cruising Speed to be selected).
Furthermore, would it be possible to implement a distance measuring tool like e.g. selecting two points and showing the distance between both?
BR Alex
Hi,
These might be longer term improvements, the interactive map currently lacks the underlying framework to be able to add something like a distance measuring tool.
Can you be more specific about how the 60 minute range function should work? Do you mean clicking a spot on the interactive map to show adequate airports in range? Or a feature that finds a list of adequate airports along the route of flight (and perhaps includes their weather in the OFP)?
Good Morning!
One of the essential problems is to verify, whether the aircraft is within the non-ETOPS (60min OEI cruising speed, usually around 400 kts TAS = 400 NM) or not. One of the easier examples is a flight from Europe to Cabo Verde, which usually needs to overfly GDV VOR to join UN873. Otherwise, like seen above, the aircraft would be ETOPS between LPA and BVC for a short time.
Working with Jeppesen Jetplanner and LIDO Flight Planning, I was simply able to determine airports in a list (GVBA; GCLPA) which where shown with their correct 60min range rings on the map, so I could determine whether to use ETOPS or not.
Jeppesen, for example, simply had a tool, where I could insert infinite airports, which were shown as adequate Aerodromes along my routing for planing reasons.
The new flight planning solution Flightkeys 5D shows this requirement pretty good:
Regarding 60min range, this is a function of One-Engine-Inoperative Crusing Speed (TAS) x 60min = Distance in NM. Usually variying between 380 to 425 NM which I was dispatching, basically B738, A320FAM, B757, B767, B787 and A300.
I am not a friend indeed of automated functions to find adequate Aerodromes, I would therefore be happy with a function like currently seen in your ETOPS list by a) finding it automated or b) applying your own list.
This would be extremly helpful by finding suitable ETOPS En-Route Alternate Aerodromes while planning e.g. across the NAT HLA sector and would be a great tool for training.
One more info: Adequate Aerodromes are not checked against their weather, which means there is no “suitability” check. Hence, no weather check is required. Only the 3% Fuel En-Route (ERA) Alternate plus ETOPS En-Route Alternates, Destination Aerodrome (DEST) and Alternate Aerodrome (ALTN) are checked for this case.
Finally, a dynamic function like clicking on an aerodrome via right-hand click and “select Adequate Aerodrome”, showing the 60min Range, would be highly appreciated and extremly dynamic and responsive as well!
Thanks.
Anything involving right-clicking on the map is probably a longer term update. For adequate airport visualization, while it isn’t as comprehensive as what you’re asking for, there is a simplistic overlay already available on the map. Simply click to show airports, then select “ETOPS” from the dropdown:
Airports can be hovered over to show their current weather/details, and the range rings are updated depending on the selected aircraft’s OEI speed.
Of course, currently SimBrief’s adequate airports cannot be added or excluded (SimBrief has a static list of adequate airports for the ETOPS function), so this layer cannot be customized. I have no doubt SimBrief includes some airports most operators don’t consider (for operational, political, or other reasons). If you see an airport that you believe should be excluded from this list, feel free to let me know (also, the reason why it should be excluded would be helpful to know as well).
Hopefully that’s better than nothing for now, and I will keep your suggestions in mind for future updates.
Cheers,
Hey Derek,
thank you for your fast response! The work-around does not work on FRA-BVC (between the Canaries and Cabo Verde, thus this routing which I have selected is definitly ETOPS for a Boeung 737-800 with an OEI cruising speed around 400kts TAS. So Simbrief says “no ETOPS req.” and does not show any adequate Aerodrome distance. So far, this work-around did not work for me, besides it is a good hint!
By the way, as I have already stated it, Simbrief does not allow me to change the OEI speed and I don’t have any information about it at the moment. Is it possible to get access to it via the airframe config?
Hi Alex,
I didn’t say it was a workaround specifically, merely a way to visualize SimBrief’s static adequate airports list.
As I said in my previous post, SimBrief’s adequate airports list probably has airports in it you are not expecting. Different operators can have their own list of adequate airports to be considered. If you enable the ETOPS overlay and look at your route, the reason why it says “ETOPS not required” will become obvious:
SimBrief is considering GQPP (Nouadhibou International) as an adequate airport. I suspect your operator does not. Hence why I requested that you let me know if you find cases such as this. Depending on the reason why your operator chose to exclude a given airport, I can then determine whether it makes sense to exclude it for all SimBrief users by default.
Note in the second image, how I am using the custom ETOPS entry, exit, and suitable airport inputs to depict the 60 minute range rings on the map. Not as user-friendly as what you’re requesting, obviously, but maybe it can be a useful workaround for you if you need to show the range rings for a specific airport.
I will respond to your other post about OEI speeds soon, still working through other messages and tasks.
Best regards,
Thank you, love your detailed and objective feedback!
Just as a For Further Information, my US 121 airline requires these following elements for an airport to be considered as an adequate airport:
In our FPS at work, I approve the airport after manually checking for all those elements. Our FPS will, when I run a flight plan, extract the adequate airports relevant to the route and print them on the flight plan for crew awareness.https://www.dropbox.com/s/rbdu9dq91minr8r/Screen%20Shot%202021-09-11%20at%2011.07.35.png?dl=0
Thanks for that. That is more or less how SimBrief’s current ETOPS list was created, only with a minimum of 7000ft, and with at least 1 ILS approach (except for a few exceptions where required, such as over the pacific).
regarding the determination of Adequate Aerodromes, EASA defines it adequate as follows:
@dksfpl is your runway width an OM and airline based requirement, or an offical legal requirement?
Regarding ETOPS minima, I am not sure where those 7000 ft are extracted. EASA for example states as follows:
There are no Precision Approach requirements for ETOPS, but higher minima (+400’/+1500m). Could you implement this as well?
Furthermore - is there an option to take control over the threshold distance, because I am still not aware of which threshold distances are taken into account?
Best Regards and thanks for all your efforts!
For us, it is a requirement from ICAO Annex 14. For example, Airbus states that for the A320 family, since they “Airbus” publish a narrow runway appendix to the AFM, they can use down to a 30m/98ft wide runway if the operator chooses to take advantage of it. Same thing for Boeing, the narrow appendix is optional for the B737, but if you purchase it, then you can take advantage of it. It adjusts the VMC scheduling for the narrow runway, and imposes some additional MEL/CDL restrictions (cant defer a thrust reverser when on a narrow runway and so on).
None of our (primarily wide body) aircraft can use a 98ft wide runway, imagine a 777 or an MD11 on a 98ft wide runway… plus, the 98ft wide runway probably doesnt have the PCN to be able to handle a 575000 airplane more than once…
As far as what I can consider as an adequate, our regs are silent, however, the FAA issued an interpretation back in 2013 called the Powell interpretation, that guides me as far as what I need from a weather perspective at the non ETOPS adequate airport.
Flight Keys? Are you with TUIfly now, Alex? 
No, not at all. Did I write something regarding FlightKeys? 
I was indeed performing my practical examination plus training at TUIfly in HAJ in Q4 2019 but I am not anyhow connected or working for them.
Cheers,
Alex
Hi,
I follow RYR SOPs and they also use 60 min EDTO 427nm OEI cruise distance. This for the MNPS TANGO approvals for crew.
Is it possible to have the 60 min please?
Also how do i get the ETP1 to show between two airports?
My routing is;
GCTS - EIDW
BIMB8E BIMBO DCT GALPA DCT ASMAR DCT RIPEL DCT BERUX T213 TAMEL DCT EVBAK DCT MAPAG DCT SUTEX SUTE2L
I want to use LEST, EICK for my ETOPs enroute alternates
Hey @Driver170,
just got a notification via E-Mail and wanted to hit some points of your request:
Extended Diversion Time Operations (EDTO) has not been established under EASA standards. EU VO 965/2012 and CAT.SPA.ETOPS for Extended Operations for two-engined Aeroplanes (ETOPS) (linked to CAT.OP.MPA.140) is still in charge. I assume that Ryanair also operates under EASA standards.
MNPS is not existing anymore. The airspace is called North Atlantic Track High Level Airspace (NAT HLA).
As I highly doubt that Ryanair is flying ETOPS, you will not have to calculate it or be able to create it. Besides, flying this routing will lead you directly within the 60min range of LEST and EICK, so there will be no applicable scenario as you will not leave the 60 min range and you will not cross the Threshold Distance. That’s by the way one of the main reasons why those Tango-Routings are where they are - to provide a safe passage for non-ETOPS aircraft at the edge of the NAT HLA incl. exemptions for minimum equipment (Datalink, HF, …)
Hi,
Thanks, of course NATHLA. Just keep using the old MNPS.
Here is the old RYR OFP and a small screenshot of the Lido document i have explaining these ETP 1
Strange procedure. Can’t see why they forced an ETOPS planning within a STOPS (non-ETOPS) distance within the Threshold Distance.
Would it be possible to implement 60 min rule for the 737 and add ETP
