(2024) As of SU5, NG data appears Inop

Navigation Data General MSFS Data
1

I don’t think I’m even getting navigraph data in my 2024 simulator for aircraft using default avionics as of SU5.

I was requested to repost this from Discord by Olaf. Here’s the backstory:

I recently purchased Dreamflight’s new Teterboro v2 (KTEB). Apparently it’s a common scenery issue where those developers are deleting waypoints (perhaps accidentally) in their scenery, rendering it impossible to load an Instrument Approach Procedure, IAP. In their defense, the SDK hasn’t been clear on how to avoid this. However Michael from WorkingTitle and I discussed what is most likely occurring (the waypoint deletion). I know it’s not just this one airport, it’s mulitple paywares confirmed by other users I’ve talked to.

So anyway, what happens is that with a default KTEB, I can fly any default aircraft, load the RNAV 19 Y at KTEB and it works fine. If I install payware KTEB, I only see the last fix before the runway. If I install Navigraph data, the same issue occurs… I only see the last fix before the runway. I can see the other fixes in the FMS but the MFD only shows the leg from the last fix to the runway, NOT the IAF or whatever I’ve selected to begin the approach.

In SU4, I’ve confirmed that installing NG data over the top of the sim would fix this issue. In other words, NG data was REQUIRED at some payware airports where the devs are accidentally deleting waypoints. But as of SU5, it almost appears that Navigraph data is NOT working at all. I cannot tell if it’s just not working where it used to (in the case of payware airports), or if it’s completely not being used by MSFS 2024’s default avionics.

It IS working just fine with aircraft or utilities that have their own db such as Fenix Airbus or TDS GTNxi. I can fly an IAP at payware KTEB with either of those and the RNAV 19 Y loads just fine.

Example pics of default TBM 930 - with default TEB and default/NG data, everything works

TEBworks
TEBworks1920×1083 419 KB

With default TBM 930 using payware TEB and Navigraph data (or default) - the RNAV fixes do not load on the MFD

TEBnoworky
TEBnoworky1920×1073 428 KB

2

Hi,
Thanks for your report here. It is not so common to get such details without asking 2-3 times :wink: … Therefore, good stuff.

In general, since SU3, you don´t need (and you should avoid it - at least it is not recommended) to re-order your installed 3rd party sceneries when the 3rd party sceneries are 100% SU3 upwards compatible. ASOBO/MS has released a new loading package order system with SU3, which is very well documented in the SDK. That’s as a general rule …

To your specific issue:
I´m not sure what you expect from us now. As I understand it, it is a confirmed 3rd-party scenery issue (delete waypoints) that can only be fixed by the scenery designer. You have no other option but to wait till it is fixed. The reordering will not work (at least not correctly according to the specifications). It depends a little on the scenery, but since you wrote that it is new, I assume the scenery is fully compatible.

Sorry that I can´t give you any other answer than to wait. You see, it has nothing to do with the data behind (stock data or our data), it is clear an issue with the scenery.

Cheers,
Richard

3

So this issue is that is worked in SU4 but not as of SU5 (not with this exact airport but another payware), to use Navigraph data in place of default. So I’m wondering if something changed in SU5, like a load order that is not allowing NG to override base data?

Effectively, navigraph data won’t work at payware airports anymore if the developers are deleting waypoints. When even in the past, navigraph would still work.

4

Sorry, I can´t answer this - we have no information about any change, and I don´t see anything in the release notes.

Also, I don´t have the 3rd-party scenery, so I can´t say whether they have configured it correctly. But as you have discovered, it is not a Navigraph data issue, because the same happens with the default stock data as well, and there is no way to fix it yourself.

… and to be clear:
3rd-party sceneries (where the devs don´t delete the waypoints) that are fully SU3-compatible are working with SU5 without any problems. There are no reports here, in the ticket system, or in the MSFS forum.

Cheers,
Richard

5

Welp ok. Thanks for writing.

6

I’m having the same problem. It’s true that the issue of third-party sceneries deleting waypoints is unfortunately not new. However, until SU5, this didn’t matter much, as the issue could be easily resolved by installing the Navigraph database. But since SU5, this no longer fixes the issue. So something must have changed. Most likely with MSFS 2024. It would be great if Navigraph could investigate this and perhaps come up with a solution. Otherwise, using the Navigraph database in MSFS 2024 is rather pointless.

7

That’s the core of the issue here. If the default data is also affected by the payware TEB scenery, there’s nothing Navigraph can do that would fix the issue.

Regards,

Tim

8

Well, before SU5, installing the Navigraph database fixed the problem. This was because it overwrote the default navdata. But that doesn’t work anymore. And that’s the issue we are reporting.

9

Thank you for reporting it. The issue is still with the addon scenery.

Cheers

Ian

10

This is still working correctly. The layer of our data is higher than the default data. We are using this from ASOBO/MS-recommended logic (according to the official, public SDK) since SU3.

You can test this yourself: enter any non-existing airports in the stock data (e.g., EDDT), and look for any non-existing tailored procedures in the EFB (e.g., NZQN RNAV 05-Y, RNAV-F, …).

In all cases, you will see that the sim uses our data over the stock data.

We would see many more reports when our data did not work as expected.

Back to the scenery issue:
I am not aware (and it looks like WT too) of any change (at least an official change) between SU4 and SU5, but when you are using a workaround in one of the previous versions that does not work any longer in the newer version without fixing the root cause, you can’t blame us, nor can you expect us to provide another workaround.

The root cause is that the scenery designer does not follow the public, official SDK, and that is the only error here. Not ASOBO/MS, not Navigraph, nor other devs/applications.

We have written an FAQ with missing information about the SIM and step-by-step instructions on how to fix it and/or find the reason. In this FAQ, we don’t recommend re-ordering packages due to other side effects. This FAQ is not new; it has existed since SU3.

The conclusion here is:
Report this to the 3rd-party scenery designer to disable/delete “removing waypoints,” and ensure the scenery is 100% SU3+ compatible and follows the SDK rules.

Also, we must perform many checks before a new SU comes out. We are fixing bugs after reports. I see this as our part in our business and as our service. I would expect the same for other companies, regardless of whether free- or payware.

Cheers
Richard