Wrong Altitude Restrictions import at LUMAS

[ivaothranger]

Dear Team,

I create two routes from LEZG to Italy.

LEZG - LIRP
PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS SECON ADITA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN ANAKI L50 KONER

Restriction: 99999/LUMAS/30000/EKSID/28000/ANAKI/19000

LEZG - LIPR
PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS SECON ADITA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN BALUK M730 BAGNO
Restriction: 35000

However, when trying to generate a route LEZG - LIPR. It keeps providing the restriction for LIRP instead of 35000 maximum, which is violating IFPS.

Correct:
-N0454F350 PONEN DCT BCN DCT LUMAS DCT SECON DCT ADITA DCT STP DCT RAPED DCT PIGOS DCT EKSID DCT NOSTA DCT EGHIN DCT BALUK M730 BAGNO

Wrong:
N0454F350 PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS/N0454F300 DCT SECON DCT ADITA DCT STP DCT RAPED DCT PIGOS DCT EKSID/N0454F280 DCT NOSTA DCT EGHIN/N0454F350 DCT BALUK M730 BAGNO

If I delete the LIRP route, the LIPR route will be provided correctly.

Regards,

[ivaothranger]

Dear Team,

If fixed it by filled Restriction as 35000/BALUK/19000.

Now it shows.
N0454F350 PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS DCT SECON DCT ADITA DCT STP DCT RAPED DCT PIGOS DCT EKSID DCT NOSTA DCT EGHIN DCT BALUK/N0454F190 M730 BAGNO

[Rodeo314]

Yes, when you specify only an overall cap, Simbrief will also look at other restrictions in its database along similar routes (which can be helpful in some cases and not so helpful in other cases).

If M730 is restricted to FL195 and below, your fix is correct; if not, you can place a 35000 restriction that overrides other restrictions by doing 35000/PONEN/35000 (or any waypoint that’s part of the route really) without having to step down at BALUK.

Regards,

Tim

[Rodeo314]

Also your routes (both to LIRP and LIPR) seem to violate LF2262 when flown during the day (roughly between 1130 and 1600 UTC):

The Simbrief “copy” function for the validator sets the time to 1200 specifically because it tends to be a more restrictive time of day (routes that are valid at that time are more likely to be valid all-day, whereas a route that validates in the evening when some restrictions are a bit more relaxed might not be valid during the day).

Regards,

Tim

P.S. as a side note, testing the entire route at FL200 does give PROF195: BALUK M730 BAGNO DOES NOT EXIST IN FL RANGE F195..F999 so the descent at BALUK is correct and necessary.

[Rodeo314]

Looking at the contents of LF2262, we have:

LF2262
LUMAS
NOT AVBL FOR TFC
VIA LUMAS AND-THEN VIA LFFRASE EXC
1. VIA LUMAS DCT OBLAD DCT EPOLO DCT RAPUR G374 BTA L146 MOULE
ARR (LIRS, LIRJ, LIQS)
2. VIA LUMAS DCT OBLAD DCT EPOLO DCT NOSTA
AND NOT ARR (LIM*, LIP*, LIRP, LIRQ, LSZA, LSZS, LSZL)
3. VIA LUMAS DCT UNANA DCT STP
ARR (LIM*, LIP*, LIRP, LIRQ, LSZA, LSZS, LSZL)

That last part is what we want, so we go from:

PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS SECON ADITA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN BALUK M730 BAGNO
to:
PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS UNANA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN BALUK M730 BAGNO
99999/PIGOS/36000/BALUK/19000

-LEZG1200
-N0443F410 PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS DCT UNANA DCT STP DCT RAPED DCT PIGOS/N0443F360 DCT EKSID DCT NOSTA DCT EGHIN DCT BALUK/N0443F190 M730 BAGNO
-LIPR0210

[…]

PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS SECON ADITA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN ANAKI L50 KONER
to:
PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS UNANA STP RAPED PIGOS EKSID NOSTA EGHIN ANAKI L50 KONER
99999/LUMAS/30000/EKSID/28000/ANAKI/19000

-LEZG1200
-N0443F410 PONEN N870 BCN M985 LUMAS/N0443F300 DCT UNANA DCT STP DCT RAPED DCT PIGOS DCT EKSID/N0443F280 DCT NOSTA DCT EGHIN DCT ANAKI/N0443F190 L50 KONER
-LIRP0155

These routes validate at 0500, 1200 and 1900 for example. But not tomorrow, due to military activity

Then one of the other routes listed in LF2262 from LUMAS to STP would indeed apply:

6. VIA LUMAS DCT NIBIK DCT NETUP DCT STP at 1200
9. VIA LUMAS DCT SECON DCT ADITA DCT STP later around e.g. 1700

…and so on

Basically, here, the mandatory routes change based on military activity and there is seemingly no solution that would be valid in all cases.

When I can’t make a route that works all the time, I tend to prefer the route that’s mandatory/recommended under “normal” circumstances, especially when there are more than one alternative routing like here.

Regards,

Tim

[ivaothranger]

So the best case is VIA LUMAS DCT NIBIK DCT NETUP DCT STP

However, it is not what I want to point out. The main reason for this topic is that when only one Altitude Restriction was filled, it tried to use the restriction from another route instead.

I guess I know now that it is the function of Simbrief in case the 99999 restriction is filled, and then they will use the restriction from another route.

So, to fix this, 35000/BALUK/19000 is enough to solve this problem.

[Rodeo314]

@ivaothranger

However, it is not what I want to point out. The main reason for this topic is that when only one Altitude Restriction was filled, it tried to use the restriction from another route instead.

Right, that’s on purpose (although it some cases it can be counter-productive, like here).

The official solution/workaround when you only need to set one altitude cap for the whole route is to do altitude/waypoint/altitude e.g. 31000/SIROD/31000

In your case 35000/BALUK/19000 is correct though as the M730 airway is limited to FL195 or below.

---

---

---

@ivaothranger

So the best case is VIA LUMAS DCT NIBIK DCT NETUP DCT STP

I would argue it’s LUMAS UNANA STP because it’s marked “H24” unlike the others. So it’s the “default” route unless/except when one of the military “configurations” are active. But route #6 does indeed cover 3 different non-standard situations so I can see why you would pick it.

Regards,

Tim