Hi,
Would it be possible to have reporting points for Polish airspace implemented into navdata? Polish Air Navigation Services Agency shares this data as AIXM 4.5 and 5.1 databases.
https://www.pansa.pl/en/publications/
Best regards,
Piotr
That’s interesting, because I can’t see anything on maps in the sim. I’ll try reinstalling navdata, but maybe it’s just MSFS issue.
I can see them in charts, but there are some issues with how that data is added to MSFS.
For some of these points like November here, there is ident code VP156 which can be used inside the sim.
However, for some, like the EPNC mentioned by you, it is not really possible, as they don’t have any identification and can be used purely with their coordinates.
In Poland, names of these points are created as ICAO + Reporting Name, so for these 2 points we should get EPPTN and EPNCC.
I’m not sure how doable that is in the sim, but it’d make flight plans more readable and be much easier to use with the builtin Garmin avionics.
Ah, these waypoints are typically uncoded. They are merely a means to direct traffic to a known point of interest for departing/arriving VFR traffic.
In terms of adding AIXM based data, it all depends on what Jeppesen picks up and chooses to add. Maybe @NAVData has some further insight as to what can be requested.
Maybe something like setting the ident code as icao + reporting name, as in the Polish standard used in flight plans? Or some kind of secondary ident/comment if the sim accepts it?
For some airfields like EPPT there are predefined visual points, in (most likely) Jepessen data, as VPxyz, while others like EPNC or EPPR are missing from navdata, but their positions are already defined in charts. IRL these points are usually loaded as user waypoints in garmin avionics, but I don’t think MSFS allows us to do it.
Point is, all of these points already exist in the Navigraph data, so to me it seems like it should be possible, and it’s just a question of how to do it. I’ll be fine without that as those points are only helpers for things I have to find visually, but it’d be really nice and useful to just set the flight plan with them.
Hi,
Every data provider has their own naming conventions; there are no real rules for it (excluding length). There are government authorities that do not provide a standard five-letter-name-code for VFR waypoints, which makes the coding according to the ARINC424 standard rules impossible.
Therefore, Jeppesen uses a standard conversion to make this codeable. Positions 1 and 2 use the characters VP/VC; when the numeric value exceeds 999, they use VF/VS (which is very rarely used). Positions 3-5 are numeric, and with the given ARINC area code, they constitute a unique and therefore valid waypoint identifier.
The next point is the difference between terminal and en route waypoints. Terminal waypoints are “connected” to the specific airport, but en route waypoints are not. To reference your example: VP156 is an en route waypoint (look at the Role), so there is no reference to EPPT.
Using the waypoint names is not an option because when you look into this area, you see two WHISKY waypoints (one in the EPTM and one in the EPPT area).
When you try to file a flightplan like:
EPTM DCT WHISY DCT WHISY DCT EPPT
This does not work - but you can file:
EPTM DCT VP181 DCT VP152 DCT EPPT
This is Jeppesen’s coding standard for creating a unique ID for VFR waypoints in their data source. There are no real regulations for VFR waypoints like there are for IFR waypoints; countries can decide for themselves how to handle them. This is not a data provider issue, sorry.
Hope that explains why we offer VPxxx waypoints with the waypoint names.
Cheers,
Richard
The issue is that most of these waypoints don’t even have that. They just don’t exist in the simulator, and can only be seen in charts app without the VPxxx code.
That’s why I proposed combining the name of the waypoint with the ICAO code of the airfield they belong to. This would solve the ambiguity issue.
Also even for enroute waypoints there surely is a reference. There are lines drawn between the points and their airfields, which means there must be some internal reference there.
The line is connected by two points (lat/lon), but there is no logical reference. En route waypoints (EA) don’t have any airport reference; only terminal waypoints (PC). That’s the ARINC424 standard and can be checked in the specification as well. In general, we may not change the source in this way, even when there is a possibility of doing so.
According to the MSFS SDK (2020 and 2024), there are separate XML attributes/tags for ident and name. Both are set with the waypoint identifier (VPxxx) and the full waypoint name. When the sim does not display names, or you can’t search it, please report this to ASOBO/MS. We have no influence on their internal logic. I’m sorry.
Cheers
Richard
It’s not ASOBO/MS problem though. Most of these points don’t have any codes at all, that’s the issue. There are a few select airfields like EPPT which have their points coded, but many more like EPPR or even big airports like EPGD don’t have that. These codes don’t exist in the Navigraph data.
Sorry, I can´t really follow you now… You wrote “Most of these points don´t have any codes”… Where? In the AIP, in our data, in the sim? When these points have no codes, or they don´t fulfill the ARINC424 requirements, they can´t be added and/or only as VPxxx …
You wrote: “These codes don´t exist in the Navigraph data.” Can you give us a handful of examples of the codes you are missing? In the best case, with the coordinates that we can use it as a reference, but sorry, I´m a little bit confused now… You miss something that does not exist 
Therefore, concrete:
Give us a few examples of what you are missing, which VFR points …
Cheers,
Richard
These codes are missing in the Navigraph data. Take EPPR as an example, here only X-RAY point has VPxxx code, but all the other points don’t have that.
Similarly here around Warsaw, most of the vfr points have just their names, but not ident codes.
Technically, in the Navigraph charts app, these points are not even classified as vfr waypoints nor anything else really. Those are just points with names, while the AIP does classify them as vfr waypoints - eAIP VFR
While making a flightplan in the charts app, the app uses coordinates instead of a reference to these points:
Hi,
Thanks for the examples and screenshots - now I understand the core issue here. The problem with these waypoints (without any ident) is that these are not part of the ARINC424 source - such information comes from a separate VFR database. Such waypoints without any identification can´t be included in any dataset and are therefore only available in our charts.
I have added an internal task to analyze this, how we can handle it in the future, and how we can add these waypoints to the database so they will be available in all datasets, too.
At the moment, I can´t give you any solution for that. I´m sorry.
Cheers,
Richard